Did I miss a new policy / rule / guideline ?

[sharingtheland]

As @scene.of.the.crop stated, eBay's expectations are for delivery before the promised delivery date

Ummm...what is the definition of "expectations" and how does it impact sellers?   Does "expectation" trump "promised?"

Signed,

Maybe I Didn't Read Every Word In That Thread ?

[yuzuha]

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@emerald40 wrote:

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@*eponymous* wrote:

The blue on the buying experience thread stated that survey data has shown that buyers find it valuable to have the option to select a PARTICULAR carrier but ignored my question about why, according to a different Blue (Trinton? on the weekly chat,) buyers cannot open a case when the seller does not use the carrier advertised by the seller.  

So again, what's up with that, eBay?!

__________________________________________________

Buyers dictating what carrier I use ould be the beginning of the end for me.

I did my research to see which is the safest most efficient way for me to transport my items?  Did a casual buyer do the same?

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It's not about buyers dictating what carrier a seller can use, it's about sellers using the carrier that they advertised in their listing-- which I feel is perfectly fair.  Personally, I won't buy from a seller who uses FedEx.  I've had too many problems with FedEx pulling a ding-and-dash (or not even knocking/ringing the doorbell at all) and leaving a "whoops sorry we missed you" slip on the door, which inconveniences me.  If I buy from a listing that says the shipping method used will be USPS, I expect to receive my package via USPS, and I would be very displeased if it arrived via FedEx instead as I made a point of NOT buying from a seller with FedEx as a stated shipping method because I did not want to deal with FedEx.

[emerald40]

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@yuzuha wrote:

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@emerald40 wrote:

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@*eponymous* wrote:

The blue on the buying experience thread stated that survey data has shown that buyers find it valuable to have the option to select a PARTICULAR carrier but ignored my question about why, according to a different Blue (Trinton? on the weekly chat,) buyers cannot open a case when the seller does not use the carrier advertised by the seller.  

So again, what's up with that, eBay?!

__________________________________________________

Buyers dictating what carrier I use ould be the beginning of the end for me.

I did my research to see which is the safest most efficient way for me to transport my items?  Did a casual buyer do the same?

---

---

It's not about buyers dictating what carrier a seller can use, it's about sellers using the carrier that they advertised in their listing-- which I feel is perfectly fair.  Personally, I won't buy from a seller who uses FedEx.  I've had too many problems with FedEx pulling a ding-and-dash (or not even knocking/ringing the doorbell at all) and leaving a "whoops sorry we missed you" slip on the door, which inconveniences me.  If I buy from a listing that says the shipping method used will be USPS, I expect to receive my package via USPS, and I would be very displeased if it arrived via FedEx instead as I made a point of NOT buying from a seller with FedEx as a stated shipping method because I did not want to deal with FedEx.

______________________________________________________

I understand that as I will never use or purchase an item delivered by UPS.

I have had too many items thrown in my back yard, when they could see my two dogs back there, or left in the middle of the driveway where I nearly ran over it.

So if seller chooses carrier, then I do not understand what everyone is afraid that ebay may implement?

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[yuzuha]

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@emerald40 wrote:

---

@yuzuha wrote:

---

---

---

It's not about buyers dictating what carrier a seller can use, it's about sellers using the carrier that they advertised in their listing-- which I feel is perfectly fair.  Personally, I won't buy from a seller who uses FedEx.  I've had too many problems with FedEx pulling a ding-and-dash (or not even knocking/ringing the doorbell at all) and leaving a "whoops sorry we missed you" slip on the door, which inconveniences me.  If I buy from a listing that says the shipping method used will be USPS, I expect to receive my package via USPS, and I would be very displeased if it arrived via FedEx instead as I made a point of NOT buying from a seller with FedEx as a stated shipping method because I did not want to deal with FedEx.

______________________________________________________

I understand that as I will never use or purchase an item delivered by UPS.

I have had too many items thrown in my back yard, when they could see my two dogs back there, or left in the middle of the driveway where I nearly ran over it.

So if seller chooses carrier, then I do not understand what everyone is afraid that ebay may implement?

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I don't understand either.  The seller is the one who sets up the shipping options; if they don't want to ship via a particular method then they shouldn't even offer it in the first place.

[Anonymous]

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@*eponymous* wrote:

@Anonymous

eBay is also in violation of the federal regulation that an item may not be advertised as "free shipping" when shipping is rolled into the item price.

ebay not only allows this practice but actually encourages and rewards sellers who offer free shipping by rolling shipping into the item price.

ebay, therefore, has a vested interest in promoting illegal, deceptive selling practices.

Deceptive trade practices regulations are codified separately from federal regulations in all 50 states, and ebay's practices that brazenly flout federal regulations governing commerce in the United States are actionable at both the state and federal levels.

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Hi @*eponymous*@, I want to clarify a few points first before responding to your question. While we would love to be able to respond to every @mention we receive and get back to Community questions as quickly as you may like, this is not always possible. Since this is not a Customer Service channel we are not always going to respond to every question, and we will not be able to commit to a quick turnaround time for answers in every conversation we do engage on. The Community is a peer to peer feedback forum and I wanted to make sure I touched on this as a reminder that The Community Team's main focus is to monitor the boards for trends and escalating issues so that this is communicated to the correct teams. When we are able to step in and help on more specific issues or policy questions, we are happy to do so in an effort to support our buyers and sellers here. However, this is not always something we can offer.

That being said, the concerns regarding the shipping method were addressed in more detail starting here. Every seller must make the best decision for their business regarding the cost of their items. When a seller elects to offer free shipping, this can warrant moving the cost into the overall cost of their items. Since the seller is setting the cost not just based on the value of the item or the price they paid themselves, but also on what profit margin is needed to be successful, this would be a personal decision and can even vary based on the items they offer. In an ever changing market such as e-commerce, buyer expectations are always evolving. One expectation that has become standard over the years is related to free shipping. Many buyers search specifically for free shipping and sellers who offer free shipping experience increased visibility and overall sales. Again, how a seller meets the expectations of the market and their customer base is up to them, but we do encourage best practices such as offering free shipping.

[chrysylys]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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but we do encourage best practices such as offering free shipping.

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You do undersnad that there is NO such thing as free shipping right?  The buyer ALWAYS pays for shipping whether it's a separate line item or not.

[Anonymous]

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@*eponymous* wrote:

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@*eponymous* wrote:

The blue on the buying experience thread stated that survey data has shown that buyers find it valuable to have the option to select a PARTICULAR carrier but ignored my question about why, according to a different Blue (Trinton? on the weekly chat,) buyers cannot open a case when the seller does not use the carrier advertised by the seller.  

So again, what's up with that, eBay?!

---

For some reason, @Anonymous chose not to reply here OR on the modern seller's thread where I also posted this question.

Additionally, I believe that my comment about a seller changing their shipping method has also been repeated without the appropriate context - the thread you are referencing contained a question from a Community member about if we consider it a valid not as described claim for a seller to change the advertised shipping method. The answer is no, as we only have expectations about the delivery date and not the method selected to meet this expectation. A seller can make the choice to change the shipping method if they see fit and the item is still delivered by the latest estimated delivery date.

If a seller makes adjustments and this creates delivery delays, this will be recorded on their account and may negatively impact their seller performance level.

 I will reply to you here, Trinton since that thread was rather unceremoniously closed to further discussion.

There is no appropriate context other than your assertion (contrary to past, if not current, written eBay policy) that eBay will not allow the buyer to file a SNAD when the seller does not use the carrier promised in the listing.

All parts of the listing - description, shipping & handling, and payment terms are a contract.  eBay cannot arbitrarily pick out shipping carrier and decide a buyer may not object to seller using a different carrier (which could involve difference in cost, non-delivery, as in the case of USPS, or slower delivery, as in the case of the three last-mile carriers, or for any other reason a buyer might decide to make a purchase on eBay based on any statement made by a seller in a listing). Shipping carrier, class, speed, cost, and any other reason that may motivate a buyer to purchase from a particular eBay seller are materially related to the purchase of an item.  In short, IMHO eBay is in violation of FTC regulations regarding truth in advertising by disallowing buyers from filing a SNAD in cases in which the seller fails to use the carrier advertised in the listing.  eBay may only care about delivery time - the FTC cares about TRUTH IN ADVERTISING and would undoubtedly hold eBay accountable for this egregious breech.

This is covered under the FTC's regulations at "Truth in Advertising". 

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/advertising-faqs-guide-small-business

What makes an advertisement deceptive?  https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/advertising-faqs-guide-small-business

According to the FTC's Deception Policy Statement, an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement - or omits information - that:

• Is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and
• Is "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product.

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@*eponymous* - we do not consider the shipping method to be a part of the item description when it comes to our eBay Money Back Guarantee protections. I know there has been some confusion about this, so wanted to touch on this as well and ensure that this is clarified. Though a buyer may certainly take the shipping options into account when purchasing and is welcome to leave feedback for a seller who does not use the promised service, this would not be grounds to warrant a return in of itself unless the item arrived significantly later than the estimated delivery date.

@sharingtheland, this ties into the question you posed at the start of this thread; nothing has changed about policy or our guidelines regarding shipping expectations. A seller is expected to ensure an item is delivered before the latest estimated delivery date has passed. If this does not happen, the buyer can open an item not received request. Should the item arrive late, while a seller would win the item not received request with confirmed delivery, they may be accountable for a return if they shipped after their stated handling time and delivery was significantly beyond the latest estimated delivery date. Late delivery can also negatively impact a seller's account if they shipped after their stated handling time, the item was delivered late and/or the buyer states delivery was late. See our Seller Center page on seller performance standards to learn more about meeting our on-time shipping metric expectations.

[penguins_dont_fly]

Happy Monday @Anonymous

<< A seller is expected to ensure an item is delivered before the latest estimated delivery date has passed>>

Trinton, I think what the objection here is has to do with wording ... again.

"Before the Last Estimated Delivery Date"

is a completely different statement than

"On or Before the Last Estimated Delivery Date"

and is miles away from scene.of.the.crop's statement

"before the promised delivery date"

[campesinoplastic2014]

 Why not? They already expect (and get) it free!

[tina06457]

I also try to buy from sellers who use usps. UPS is ok but they sometimes want a signiture and that can cause a problem for me. Fed Exp is really bad. They miss deliveries, overcharge, leave notes on the door without knocking, leave packages out on the sidewalk in bad weather(I have a covered porch). I'm very careful when setting up my listings to figure out shipping cost and method first. I've really only had problems with drop shippers. Their suppliers use any and all methods of shipping. I got a couple of surprises there.  IF ebay were to start requiring sellers to offer other carriers, I would stop selling.

[campesinoplastic2014]

Surveys (here or elsewhere) don't meaning  thing. They are  propoganda tactic used to give people the illusion that the particular party cares about their well being. I could go on and on about what people said they wanted in a survey, but there is no way to verify that any of it is true.  If some organization is sending out surveys, all it really means is that they have problems and they do not accept  any of the resposibility for their shortcomings. They will always say "people said they like how we do it".  They are going to things their way, they could care less what anyone thinks about that.

[rainbowcolorz]

@*eponymous* wrote:

It would be, at a minimum, polite, for eBay employees who run a thread and ask for the community's input to give some notice that the thread will be closed at such-and-such-time, instead of abruptly and rudely closing the thread without notice...give the courtesy of a "last call" before closing a thread in the middle of a conversation, eBay!

I'm no apologist for the blue so cannot explain what was meant, but there is a metric for on-time shipping for seller performance. As long as a seller has an acceptance scan within handling time, that's all that is needed...currently.

Well, that's good to know.  I think I'm safe ... at least for now.   I have 1-day handling time. 

My buyer paid for her item on Sunday 1/7/18.  I printed the label right then and went to the P.O. Monday, 1/8 and it was scanned immediately.   

I went to their USPS Informed Delivery website  the other day and see the item is DELAYED and the message says it will not be delivered in the expected time.   I requested emails for ALL movement/updates.    So far nothing.  

It appears the package went from Hollywood, FL to Dearborn, MI and then to OpaLocka, FL and back to Dearborn, MI where it hasn't moved an inch since 1/13.  

Tracking #:

Carrier:  USPS

Status:

ACCEPTED    IN TRANSIT                    DELIVERED  

In Transit to Destination

[rainbowcolorz]

@Anonymous you said: A seller is expected to ensure an item is delivered before the latest estimated delivery date has passed. If this does not happen, the buyer can open an item not received request. 

How can any seller ensure an item is delivered when the seller is not the one who delivers the item?

And what will happen in my situation???  I have kept my buyer apprised of the situation via eBay message that THE POST OFFICE (not me) has delayed her package's arrival.  

My situation is:  I have a 1-day handling time on all my listings.  My buyer paid for her item on Sunday 1/7/18.  I printed the label right then and went to the P.O. Monday, 1/8 and it was scanned immediately.

I went to their USPS Informed Delivery website  the other day and see the item is DELAYED and the message says it will not be delivered in the expected time.   I requested emails for ALL movement/updates.    So far nothing.  

It appears the package went from Hollywood, FL to Dearborn, MI and then to OpaLocka, FL and back to Dearborn, MI where it hasn't moved an inch since 1/13.  

Tracking #: 

Carrier:  USPS

Status:

ACCEPTED   IN TRANSIT                   DELIVERED

In Transit to Destination

[penguins_dont_fly]

<<It appears the package went from Hollywood, FL to Dearborn, MI and then to OpaLocka, FL and back to Dearborn, MI where it hasn't moved an inch since 1/13. >> 

@rainbowcolorz

Those "In transit to" scans are not actual scans, they are filler that are posted every 24 hours when there has been no scan.

The first delay was between Hollywood, FL and Opa Locka, FL

It took 2+ days to get from your PO in Hollywood to the Opa Locka sorting center.

It still has not reached Michigan, 3 days later 😞

[d-k_treasures]

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@emerald40 wrote:

Sellers give buyers an option to pick a carrier?  Really.

I have seen options on how fast you want to get it there, but I do not recall ever getting a carrier option.

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I've seen a bunch of listings where they would offer USPS PM or UPS and/or Fed Ex.

[d-k_treasures]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@*eponymous* wrote:

---

@*eponymous* wrote:

The blue on the buying experience thread stated that survey data has shown that buyers find it valuable to have the option to select a PARTICULAR carrier but ignored my question about why, according to a different Blue (Trinton? on the weekly chat,) buyers cannot open a case when the seller does not use the carrier advertised by the seller.  

So again, what's up with that, eBay?!

---

For some reason, @Anonymous chose not to reply here OR on the modern seller's thread where I also posted this question.

Additionally, I believe that my comment about a seller changing their shipping method has also been repeated without the appropriate context - the thread you are referencing contained a question from a Community member about if we consider it a valid not as described claim for a seller to change the advertised shipping method. The answer is no, as we only have expectations about the delivery date and not the method selected to meet this expectation. A seller can make the choice to change the shipping method if they see fit and the item is still delivered by the latest estimated delivery date.

If a seller makes adjustments and this creates delivery delays, this will be recorded on their account and may negatively impact their seller performance level.

 I will reply to you here, Trinton since that thread was rather unceremoniously closed to further discussion.

There is no appropriate context other than your assertion (contrary to past, if not current, written eBay policy) that eBay will not allow the buyer to file a SNAD when the seller does not use the carrier promised in the listing.

All parts of the listing - description, shipping & handling, and payment terms are a contract.  eBay cannot arbitrarily pick out shipping carrier and decide a buyer may not object to seller using a different carrier (which could involve difference in cost, non-delivery, as in the case of USPS, or slower delivery, as in the case of the three last-mile carriers, or for any other reason a buyer might decide to make a purchase on eBay based on any statement made by a seller in a listing). Shipping carrier, class, speed, cost, and any other reason that may motivate a buyer to purchase from a particular eBay seller are materially related to the purchase of an item.  In short, IMHO eBay is in violation of FTC regulations regarding truth in advertising by disallowing buyers from filing a SNAD in cases in which the seller fails to use the carrier advertised in the listing.  eBay may only care about delivery time - the FTC cares about TRUTH IN ADVERTISING and would undoubtedly hold eBay accountable for this egregious breech.

This is covered under the FTC's regulations at "Truth in Advertising". 

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/advertising-faqs-guide-small-business

What makes an advertisement deceptive?  https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/advertising-faqs-guide-small-business

According to the FTC's Deception Policy Statement, an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement - or omits information - that:

• Is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and
• Is "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product.

---

@*eponymous* - we do not consider the shipping method to be a part of the item description when it comes to our eBay Money Back Guarantee protections. I know there has been some confusion about this, so wanted to touch on this as well and ensure that this is clarified. Though a buyer may certainly take the shipping options into account when purchasing and is welcome to leave feedback for a seller who does not use the promised service, this would not be grounds to warrant a return in of itself unless the item arrived significantly later than the estimated delivery date.

@sharingtheland, this ties into the question you posed at the start of this thread; nothing has changed about policy or our guidelines regarding shipping expectations. A seller is expected to ensure an item is delivered before the latest estimated delivery date has passed. If this does not happen, the buyer can open an item not received request. Should the item arrive late, while a seller would win the item not received request with confirmed delivery, they may be accountable for a return if they shipped after their stated handling time and delivery was significantly beyond the latest estimated delivery date. Late delivery can also negatively impact a seller's account if they shipped after their stated handling time, the item was delivered late and/or the buyer states delivery was late. See our Seller Center page on seller performance standards to learn more about meeting our on-time shipping metric expectations.

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Having been here since 1998, I do remember that a buyer could open a case for, lets say, advertising priority mail and shipping parcel post(parcel select now) and win it because the seller downgraded the shipping service.