Damaged Parcel

[caminocielo]

I sold an item that, because of its weight, size, and value, I entrusted to a business offering packing and shipping (by UPS Ground).  Although traveling only from North Carlina to Vermont, the cost of packing, shipping, and insurance was over $700.00.  Because the large carton in which the item shipped was ripped open and the item exposed, the buyer refused to accept delivery.   In the view of the buyer, the item had been poorly packed.  Evidently, it'd been mishandled as well.

I sold an identical item fifteen years ago, had it professionally packed (by a firm different than the one I used this time), and it arrived at the buyer's address undamaged.  

The item was fully insured, although recovering any portion of the substantial cost of packing and shipping seems doubtful.   Can anyone recommend a course of action?  In more than fifteen years selling on eBay, haven't encountered this issue before.

[mam98031]

We just disagree on this point.  I believe the damage can be proved if it was as damaged as the OP has said it was with the product inside exposed.  But the pictures would give that information.  Both the pics by the buyer and those taken by UPS.

[caminocielo]

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You are not familiar with what insurance is on shipping?  At the time you were preparing the shipping label you had the opportunity to purchase insurance on the package too.  Did you do that and if so have you put a claim in for this damage?

When you went to the UPS store or where ever it was you took the item for packaging.  Did they offer insurance for their work they did for you?  If so, did you purchase that insurance?

Who is the shipper if not you?  The people you hired to package the item?  If that is the case, did you contact them to tell them the problem?  If not you should.  They and you need to know the status of that package and you need to get the insurance claim filed.  You have pictures to present.  

Would you mind posting the pics here.  Make sure you black out any address to your buyer if that appears in the pics.

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You seem to be making a distinction between insuring the contents of a parcel and insuring the quality of the packaging.  I'm unaware of the existence of latter and, no, the business I used didn't offer insurance on the quality of its work (and it's no wonder given how shoddy it was).

As I thought I made clear, I didn't prepare the shipping label.  I can't make a claim until the item's returned to me so I can assess the damage.  So far, I have only the buyer's report of damage, not images of it.  The images she provided show only the shipping carton and minimal packing material (lightweight paper completely unsuited to protecting the roughly fifty-pound machine).  The parcel is being returned to the shipper.  

[mam98031]

@caminocielo 

FYI

https://www.theupsstore.com/about/pack-ship-guarantee

[mam98031]

Wow that looks like they left a lot of open space inside the box for the item to move around during its travels.  That may have caused all the damage.  That is terrible.

[rouleur]

Ah, that's interesting.  Unfortunately, the knuckleheads who packed & shipped my item aren't employees of an "official" UPS Store.  The buyer said  in one of her messages that "The issue was the packaging: no padding, just a little paper. "  One of the employees at the business asked, as I was leaving the store, "What most concerns you?"  I told him it was most important that the machine arrive undamaged.  A lot of good that did.  All for $704.18.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@pikabo-icu wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

The buyer should not have refused to accept delivery.

Is it being RTS (returned to sender)? 

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I don't think I would have accepted it.  Not a large package like that.  But as a buyer I sure would have taken pictures of it before letting UPS carry it away so I had proof for Ebay on why I refused delivery.  But with that said, UPS should have pics of the damaged package.  They take pics when delivering it.

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@mam98031 

But doesn't refusing delivery negate the buyer's MBG? Per the policy?

The buyer refused delivery of the item

Covered: The item arrived with shipping cost still owing because the seller didn't apply enough postage Not covered: The buyer refused delivery for any other reason If a package arrives empty or was damaged in transit, the buyer should accept the delivery and report that the item doesn't match the listing.

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You are absolutely correct.  But you are allowed to refuse a package if postage is due on the shipment and not lose your buyer protection.  I would think with proper evidence the significant damage on a large package would be honored by Ebay too.  Which is why I said if it were me, I would refuse the package but only after taking pics so you could prove what you are saying.  And I'd likely contact UPS so I could get their pic or pics as well as they day pics at the delivery too.

The OP has said that the buyer did take 3 pics that they shared with them.  I'm hoping the OP will post them.  I did ask.  

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My point in saying that the buyer shouldn't have refused delivery is that I knew the buyer would lose the MBG in doing so. 

I don't disagree that accepting the damaged package would have been a huge inconvenience for the buyer but for the buyer's protection, they should have accepted it. The ONLY reason (per ebay policy) that they are allowed to refuse delivery is for a postage due item. 

@mam98031 When policy is so clear as to specifically exclude ANY other case in which a buyer refuses delivery, why would you think ebay would make an exception in this case, especially when it's clear they don't accept video or photographic evidence. (What about all those sellers who have claims of empty boxes and the sellers say they have videos of themselves packing the shipment that show it wasn't an empty box?)

Again, according to policy, the one and only reason that's an acceptable reason for refusing delivery is postage due. 

[ampgroup2021]

Judging by the two images, that looks like the most inadequate and incompetent packing job I have ever seen, more like $35.00 than $700.00+, you have been treated terribly.

[caminocielo]

The saddest aspect of this is that the machine contained in that battered parcel is a rarity.  The buyer told me she'd been trying to find one for years.  The maker died in 2023, so no more of these specialized machines are being made.  I wish I knew how to recover funds from the packer/shipper.  

[albertabrightalberta]

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@caminocielo wrote:

  I wish I knew how to recover funds from the packer/shipper.  

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Small claims court.

In addition to suing for reimbursement of the shoddy packaging, you could also sue for the loss of the item that was damaged as a direct result of their poor work. 

North Carolina has small claims limits of $5k to $10K depending on county so your claim would be <$5,000. 

I'd do it in a heartbeat! I think you'd win. 

[klhmdg]

@caminocielo    you can file a CC chargeback if you used a credit card.

If they would not refund my money I would go that route.

At least you may be able to get the shipping fees back you were charged.

[pikabo-icu]

@caminocielo 

In thinking about this further, that heavy machine should never have shipped in a cardboard box. 

I worked in freight for a number of years and that object should have been shipped in a wooden crate. The $700 they charged you was more than enough to build a crate or at the very least a wooden frame that the machine would be secured to with heavy gauge wire, rope or zip ties. 

I agree with @albertabrightalberta  I would sue them but before you do..

Get the item back & inspect for damages, the only thing we know right now is the packaging was damaged. You haven't seen the machine to know if it was damaged cosmetically or beyond repair.

Then; Send a certified letter to the "shipping" company (I put that in parenthesis because they have no clue what they're doing) pointing out their dereliction and demand they refund your shipping charges BOTH ways and if the machine is damaged, add the cost of repair or value if it's a total loss. Make sure to include a copy of the sale details to prove it's value or a repair estimate if it can be repaired. 

Inform them you plan to sue if they don't remit you a check within 30 days. 

If you don't receive compensation SUE them.  

That "company" should be put out of business.. 

[Anonymous]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

@mam98031When policy is so clear as to specifically exclude ANY other case in which a buyer refuses delivery, why would you think ebay would make an exception in this case, especially when it's clear they don't accept video or photographic evidence. (What about all those sellers who have claims of empty boxes and the sellers say they have videos of themselves packing the shipment that show it wasn't an empty box?)

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Exactly correct. They will not. Unless it is as a “courtesy.”

[Anonymous]

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@rouleur wrote:

Ah, that's interesting.  Unfortunately, the knuckleheads who packed & shipped my item aren't employees of an "official" UPS Store.  The buyer said  in one of her messages that "The issue was the packaging: no padding, just a little paper. "  One of the employees at the business asked, as I was leaving the store, "What most concerns you?"  I told him it was most important that the machine arrive undamaged.  A lot of good that did.  All for $704.18.

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If the business refused to make this right (especially for this amount and with clear proof of their terrible service), I’d file a dispute with my credit card so fast…

Let them take you to court if they wish.  No way they win. 

There’s also unfavorable social media exposure which may be applied, and I’m sure they would prefer to avoid. 

[caminocielo]

Thank you for your guidance in the step-by-step approach to seeking compensation.  Unfortunately, I long ago joined the ranks of senior citizens and, as such, am ill-equipped to pursue the matter in court.  The business isn't even in my state, and travel to small claims court in a neighboring state (with no guarantee of 'success') is off-putting.  I just made a very, very poor choice selecting this business to pack and ship the machine.  As I think I said, in 2010 I shipped an identical machine through a genuine UPS Store and had no problems at all.  The buyer in that transaction reported the machine was very well-packed.  Why didn't I choose to do business with that UPS Store again?  I live in a rural area and it was a longer drive!   I've learned a hard lesson (and I feel sorry for the buyer, who's been completely understanding and cooperative throughout this process).

[pikabo-icu]

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@caminocielo wrote:

Thank you for your guidance in the step-by-step approach to seeking compensation.  Unfortunately, I long ago joined the ranks of senior citizens and, as such, am ill-equipped to pursue the matter in court.  The business isn't even in my state, and travel to small claims court in a neighboring state (with no guarantee of 'success') is off-putting.  I just made a very, very poor choice selecting this business to pack and ship the machine.  As I think I said, in 2010 I shipped an identical machine through a genuine UPS Store and had no problems at all.  The buyer in that transaction reported the machine was very well-packed.  Why didn't I choose to do business with that UPS Store again?  I live in a rural area and it was a longer drive!   I've learned a hard lesson (and I feel sorry for the buyer, who's been completely understanding and cooperative throughout this process).

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@caminocielo 

I'm sorry.. I took care of my elderly mom so I get it..

That said; I would still send the letter.. 

That's a lot of money involved and it can't hurt to send the letter.. They can't know you wont file.. 

I'm very sorry this happened to you.. 

It's a sad day when a company like that takes advantage of people, especially our silver citizens ..

Sad, SAD day. 

The advice to open a credit card chargeback is also very good. That will at least get the shipping fees recovered.