Chargeback scam: what are my options?

[macprofessionals2012]

I sold a laptop to someone on eBay. He inititally opened a return because he said there was something wrong with it. I contacted him and worked it out, but he then went and opened a chargeback saying he was just doing it to cover himself and would cancel it once the laptop was fixed.

(For full discloure, what actually happened was the buyer was using the laptop and installed updates that made it stop booting up. The laptop was under IBM warranty. I helped him contact IBM, they repaired it, he confirmed all is good. I was in no way responsible and the item I listed was exactly as described.)

He told me he cancelled the chargeback on April 24th when the laptop was returned to him by IBM. PayPal within a few days of this took the money from me because they claimed I was not covered for this chargeback (they don't cover merchandise chargebacks) and PayPal claims they are fighting the chargeback on my behalf. The buyer on the other hand has been showing suspicious behavior since then, dodging my requests for info or proof he cancelled the chargeback.

PayPal as usual is of absolutely no help whatsoever. If you call them they are rude and just say there's nothing they can do, it takes 70 days, whatever the credit card company decides is final. One guy told me to stop wasting my time. The laptop was $1200 so it's a lot of money we are talking here.

Right now the buyer is with the item, I am without the money and I have also been charged a penalty fee of $20 by PayPal.

If the credit card company sides with the buyer, what are my options? Obviosuly PayPal and eBay could care less.

A police report? Small claims court?

[missjen831]

Craigsdiesel, I'm glad you won that chargeback! When I worked for a tow truck company, I had to fight a chargeback on their behalf, it was only $570 but VISA initially decided in the customer's favor because the signature on the credit card receipt did not match the signature on the card! The guy was obviously planning this from the start. He was car was used in an armed robbery in the Bay Area and the police here located it and it was held at our facility at their request. When the owner came pick it up, the fees were almost $550 and he paid with a credit card. He had to go to our police department and get a vehicle release form first. Anyway even though I submitted the police tow form, the vehicle release form, the credit card slip and a copy of his drivers license, he initially won the chargeback. It took several months and i finally had to call and speak with someone to get it reversed! I couldn't believe all that proof we had that he authorized the charges and they decide in his favor because he scribbled his name on the credit card slip!

[timetochow]

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@savanna.dance wrote:
Wow, wow and wow! The more I read the boards, the more shocking things I learn. I would have been sick to death with worry over a $40,000 chargeback. Who am I kidding, I would be sick over a couple of hundred.

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few indviduals selling from home would accept a $40k payment via credit card,I dont think Paypal goes that high.

if you have your own merchant account,you could but a buyer would have to have a credit card which comes with  a hefty credit line.

the buyer would either have a platinum VISA/MC/AMEX or a business credit card.

And think of the fee the seller has to pay . 

[timetochow]

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@missjen316 wrote:
Craigsdiesel, I'm glad you won that chargeback! When I worked for a tow truck company, I had to fight a chargeback on their behalf, it was only $570 but VISA initially decided in the customer's favor because the signature on the credit card receipt did not match the signature on the card! The guy was obviously planning this from the start. He was car was used in an armed robbery in the Bay Area and the police here located it and it was held at our facility at their request. When the owner came pick it up, the fees were almost $550 and he paid with a credit card. He had to go to our police department and get a vehicle release form first. Anyway even though I submitted the police tow form, the vehicle release form, the credit card slip and a copy of his drivers license, he initially won the chargeback. It took several months and i finally had to call and speak with someone to get it reversed! I couldn't believe all that proof we had that he authorized the charges and they decide in his favor because he scribbled his name on the credit card slip!

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I thought if the buyer shows up with his credit card and he signed the back of t he card and merchant verified the card to be good,signature does not matter unless he reported card stolen.

[missjen831]

He filed the chargeback saying the charges were unauthorized. His card issuer initially reversed the charges in his favor, saying we lost because his signature did not match the signature on the credit card slip. It was quite a fiasco fighting the chargeback and it seems like a human being never looked at the documents i provided until after we appealed. It was like a computer bot automatically sided with him. I had his signature on the police vehicle release form (which matched the card), multiple documents showing he was the registered owner of the car, documents showing his car had been taken to our facility, I explained that he had to prove his identity to the cops in order to get the release form. Had a human being actually looked at the documents the first time, we should have won.

[timetochow]

Credit card issuers do not use bots to resolve chargebacks,there is usually a special section in customer service which investigates these cases,some of these clerks are quite good and fair,

I am surprised after reviewing all the documents you submitted,your would lose,but your merchant account provider should be intouch with them and relay back to you why they decide in his favor,could be some arguments/evidence he presented. 

[missjen831]

We did win. We initially lost because of the signature issue. I then re-submitted our documents twice and called and in the end, the decision was reversed in our favor, only after speaking to a human being.

[password9019]

"I sold a laptop to someone on eBay."

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You could have stopped right there. ^^^^^ is the beginning and end of your problem. Best of luck with that.

Now, had you sold a laptop *not on ebay*, the odds that you would have had a smooth transaction and gotten paid with no problems would have been much, much higher.

If you ultimately want to protect yourself, stop selling computers on ebay. My advice.

[timetochow]

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@password9019 wrote:
"I sold a laptop to someone on eBay."

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You could have stopped right there. ^^^^^ is the beginning and end of your problem. Best of luck with that.

Now, had you sold a laptop *not on ebay*, the odds that you would have had a smooth transaction and gotten paid with no problems would have been much, much higher.

If you ultimately want to protect yourself, stop selling computers on ebay. My advice.

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it is not just laptop,it could be any merchandise,including  toilet paper.

[password9019]

Hey, to each their own.

I'm merely pointing out that if the OP or you knows anything about problematic buyers, scams and liar buyer fraud in the aggregate sense, electronics -and PC's in particular, are THE MOST problematic items on ebay.

Due to who seeks them for purchase and why, nothing else.

[timetochow]

I just reread the OP thread,he said the he helped the buyer to get IBM involved to resolve the problem,which tells me the condition of the laptop has been altered,not to mention the buyer tried to update the software in the laptop on his own..

In hind sight,it is better to ask the buyer to return the laptop instead of getting involved in further tinkering-buyer and IBM .

You may want to sell it on CL instead of Ebay and take cash,let him tinker as much as he wants ,but do you know IBM,HP of the world would not honor the warranty if the original owner sold it to someone else in an online auction.

But you woild not face a chargeback if he pays you cash.

may be you get less,but you GET IT $$ 

[gopetersen]

I have won a case similar to this.

You can win this kind of case by writing a very careful, clear, simple, professional, unemotional bullet list of what happened (and your background in one sentence at the beginning if you are a computer specialist).

Then you upload it to the PayPal case file.

They do read them and consider them as part of the case.

[password9019]

My way of doing it, and to put it simply, would be local pick up only- face-to-face and you sign a disclaimer and have it notarized.

You agree that the sale is final, no returns, no questions asked, no nothing. You get a signed receipt for your purchase, and on it seller is in acknowledgement that you signed the disclaimer in front of a witness to your identity and signature.

[timetochow]

if local pickup,he should ask for cash and he can then skip all the other stuff.

but his buyers would be limited to local folks,

[password9019]

cash or not, I would still go through the steps I outlined briefly.

[macprofessionals2012]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

The laptop was brand new, sealed in the box. Which is why I did not want a return. I don't know what he did with it to cause the issue and the item is worth a lot less already opened. It has a 3-year factory warranty.

One of the really annoying things about PayPal is, there is more info I can add to the case since the chargeback was originally opened. I had replied when it was opened but I have additional email correspondence that proves he said he cancelled the chargeback that I want to add now. I asked PayPal if I can add more documents to the case and they said no, that once I reply the first time that is it. If they add anymore info to the case, the CC company will fine them. Seriously, PayPal told me that. I said what if the CC company decides in the buyer's favor, will I be able to respond. They said no, it's over at that point. I have no idea what credit card the buyer has so I can't contact them on my own.