Can you ever win an appeal?

[jatecosales]

I am kinda new to the selling portion of Ebay and think I learned a lesson. If anyone can tell me if I'm wrong here and explain why I would appreciate it. To me the evidence looks pretty clear cut and I am trying to explain it in 1000 words thanks to Ebay's appeal system. Thankfully this is extra money for me but it is really frustrating none the less. I have been selling some more expensive stuff like watches and hadn't had a problem until now. The watch was 695, he asked for a discount and I said no because the watch was cheaper than anyone else's listing by about 500 dollars. He waited two days and said he would take it. I said ok, I'll pack it right and shipped it off. The day it arrives he says I sent him a padlock and not the watch. I figure I am pretty well screwed. Out of pettiness I sent a return label to get the lock and hopefully tie his money up long enough he would be late on rent. Well the lock I get back doesn't look like like the lock he sent a pic of to start the return. It looks like he stole the lock out/tag out lock from a machine. It has writing on it and no cylinder, clearly not the same lock as the one he sent a pic of. This makes me think to google image search the pic he sent. I find the exact pic on a lockpicking website on reddit. He very clearly grabbed the image from there. I think I got this guy and send in what I had found. How could his pic from June be the same pic exactly from three years ago right? Well nope, they give him all his money and shipping amount, The Ebay reply just says we know that it's not the same item but we decided to refund him because we don't actually lay eyes on the item you sent. Totally ignoring the fact I said I sent a watch and he said a padlock but can't produce the padlock and I found the image was stolen. I know I'm just SOL but with this being the first time for a higher ticket item I guess I just feel powerless. Also knowing I can't really prevent it from happening again either. I don't think I can post pictures on here and I can't link to the Reddit page. Sorry about all the text, guess I'm using this as a way to vent.

[stainlessenginecovers]

You actually have NO PROOF of anything- buyer said you sent 'this' and pictured 'this' what you 'got' cannot be proven because pictures, video etc. is NOT acceptable 'proof' (as it's easy to doctor and or you could easily just be saying 'it's not the same'. 

Your 'appeal' could be/should be less than 30 words. 

"This buyer is stealing a $700 watch from me! I did NOT send this buyer a 'padlock'- even if I did, it is NOT the one buyer 'pictured"

then you just hope they give you a 'courtesy refund' or portion of. 

In the meantime, you can 'report the buyer' for this behavior and when more sellers do the same, then the buyer will be removed from buying here any longer. 

You can also file a 'police report' in your city, in their city (attempt by telephone) and the local Post Office (for this person using the Postal Service to steal peoples' stuff) 

[profitweb · Accepted solution]

Please, try to call eBay Customer Support, tomorrow during work hours if possible.

You need to call them before the time runs out to give buyer a refund. If you pass the time to give a refund and do nothing, buyer will automatically be fully refunded and you'll have no recourse.

I would report the buyer, and show images and communications.

KEEP IT SHORT. 

DON'T USE RUN-ON SENTENCES.

EXAMPLE:

"I mailed expensive watch to buyer.

Buyer lied, claimed I sent a padlock and they provided a photo of a padlock. 

Buyer sent return, using label I supplied. I received a different padlock than they had originally pictured. My watch is missing.

I've been scammed. They stole the item."

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Please update us on the result. Try to be patient and calm with support.

[jatecosales]

The picture he sent isn't proof? I also provided the Reddit link to the page that had the same picture he got his from. I can't doctor Reddit or the image he sent in through Ebay's system. If I did and sent it as proof they could clearly see I altered it. I filed a police report here, I have my report with the postal inspector. He's in PR and used the post office's physical address to get around me not shipping to P.O. Boxes, I didn't realize it. I didn't really even have an address to give the cops but the post office. I reported the buyer but I guess I'm frustrated in general. I think I may leave Ebay or just use it for the shipping discounts. I'm not sure if I would have better luck selling on another site.

[jatecosales]

I appreciate that. I did contact support, they ruled in favor of the buyer. I'm waiting on the appeal decision now but I think you are right, I will try and call tomorrow. If they could at least explain why they made the decision they did I could understand better. I may not be happy but at least I would understand. 

[ittybitnot]

The day it arrives he says I sent him a padlock and not the watch.

@jatecosales 

If a buyer chooses any "item not as described" reason from the dropdown menu, at that point for all intents and purposes that is exactly what your item becomes in the eyes of eBay. Veracity is never considered.  This is a bot driven activity, with predictable results.  Intervention by customer service is not allowed.  As a seller you are expected to "suck it up" as part of doing business here. 

You photos no longer matter, your text will never be read, and your tenure on the site is meaningless.  As a matter of fact, it appears when the buyer is required to post a photo of 'what they got instead' it is never viewed either.  The first I saw was a buyer that posted a picture of a dead duck instead of the item, and was refunded.  Subsequent reports here indicate a black square as a pic will suffice, or any photo of anything will allow the claim to proceed as usual.  

I don't think eBay has cared what a buyer sends back for years.  Lately it seems they don't care if the return ever arrives for they seem to be refunding from the seller's proceeds simply because "it should have arrived by now." Send a computer, get back a box of rubber bands, does not prevent the buyer from getting a refund from your proceeds.  Anything can be had for free (at the seller's expense) here with the right kind of phony claim.  

That said, there are two ways that you loss can be lessened.  If you qualify, when you get a faulty return you can select to refund only 50%.  That way you only get "half way" ripped off.  The other is if you sent the product to a non-us user that uses a Freight Forwarder with a US address.  eBay will not tell you that  a freight forwarder was used, nor what you have to do to avoid having to refund.  They are treated like any other sale, with the hopes that you don't notice, or know what to do.   (The helpers here DO KNOW, in case it happens to you, and can advise you. Remember Delaware, Florida, Oregon, are the most common but not inclusive addresses).  


Otherwise, the advice often given is to NOT post anything for sale here that you can not afford to lose.  Or as in this case pay extra on top of that to "maybe" get the product back.  Know your risk tolerance, and remember selling local for cash is good and a lot less expensive.  US buyers do not like getting the case number from your Postal Inspectors report either. 

[justforfun.2010]

I never heard eBay change an appeal.

[12345jamesstamps]

.I...

I did win one back in December. First, remember you are corresponding to  eBay.

I actually wrote and used all 1000 words politely and businesslike. I actually did a draft before actually posting my thoughts. This 'win' was actually a credit card chargeback I won but almost the same thing.

You are allowed to post photos...I think 12...You can take them with a camera, iPhone or whatever.

Make sure you put something...anything where it asks for photos or documentation.

I also do mention the buyer ID where...country he is from...new buyer...old buyer...check his feedback...is he still registered on eBay...It's a lot of researching. I am pretty sure you can do photos...might be called 'documentation' or something else. eBay sometimes changes how to add photos.

Again, dates and everything I got to tell you it is so important.

Good luck.

[jatecosales]

Yeah I think you are right, that's my biggest problem is that I don't feel like Ebay even cares. I understand that they don't know what we send or what we get back, thats just risk. He used the ebay mail system to send a pic that I can show came from somewhere else and they can verify it. Thats what's killing me. I can 100% proven he copied a pic from somewhere else, I feel like that should work in my favor.

[jatecosales]

Sadly that's what I am seeing more and more. I'm thinking of moving on from Ebay just because this could happen again. 99% of the people I work with on here are great, it's just the scammers that ruin it like everything.

[jatecosales]

Thank you! I appreciate that. I have a little hope now. I did add pics of everything and my postal inspector report code to my appeal. For some reason I couldn't post them here but now I just saw the camera icon. I kept it formal, even though I am stressed I know it's not the ebay admin fault, the scammer caused all this. I wish I just didn't get back form letter correspondence. 

[jatecosales]

Here is the pic he sent in for the return and here is the 3 year old reddit page.

[stainlessenginecovers]

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@jatecosales wrote:

The picture he sent isn't proof? I also provided the Reddit link to the page that had the same picture he got his from. I can't doctor Reddit or the image he sent in through Ebay's system. If I did and sent it as proof they could clearly see I altered it. I filed a police report here, I have my report with the postal inspector. He's in PR and used the post office's physical address to get around me not shipping to P.O. Boxes, I didn't realize it. I didn't really even have an address to give the cops but the post office. I reported the buyer but I guess I'm frustrated in general. I think I may leave Ebay or just use it for the shipping discounts. I'm not sure if I would have better luck selling on another site.

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Yes, it's HIS proof and not yours- there is NO PROOF that what you SAID you recieved is what you received so therefore he 'shipped' you back what you shipped him (so he says and when it's a buyer/seller- buyers win). 

[jatecosales]

Then why would the pic he sent in on June 2024 be the same picture from a 3 year old reddit post? Neither of which I can alter.

[ittybitnot]

 I can 100% proven he copied a pic from somewhere else, I feel like that should work in my favor.

@jatecosales 

We know.   eBay is judge, jury, executioner.  Those that control the money, control the outcome even if it done by an AI bot.   Unfortunately, eBay is not interested in your proof.  It won't hurt or cost you anything to appeal, but just be prepared.  It is the same bot action.   

BTW to what city/state did you ship this product?