Buyer trying to scam me out of $3K

[Anonymous]

I'm a 25 year casual eBay seller. I generally sell mostly recycled computers, cameras and music gear. I've maintained a near perfect record during that time of positive feedback. 

Last week I sold a 2023 MacBook Pro For about $3k. Buyer msg'd me asking for details that were already in the pics and description. He purchased the machine and I sent it out that morning after notification that his funds had cleared. Item was shipped via UPS and arrived on Saturday. 

Today he msgs me and says that what I shipped wasn't as advertised. Then he proceeds to share images of a computer that wasn't what I shipped. I can't tell exactly, but it looks like a 2016-2018 MacBook Pro (it has a Touch Bar where mine did not), and now he's asking for a refund.

He's a relatively new user and has about a dozen positive feedbacks. From what I'm reading on these forums this type of scam is fairly common and it sounds like eBay doesn't protect their sellers. 

eBay sent a msg after the return was initiated to say that they were holding funds until this dispute is resolved, but I've already been paid out and cleared out the account eBay has access to. 

From what I've read in these forums, it sounds like eBay is going to side with the buyer regardless of his sketchiness and my stellar reputation. What's the recourse in these situations? 

[gurlcat]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I can appreciate the skepticism after what I've gone thru. As to your question, all I have in my defense is:

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Oh I am not actually skeptical of you.  My question was in a reply to someone else in the thread, who made a very bad suggestion (that you should not allow eBay to withdraw your funds and just let them sue you -they absolutely would beat you, because if the buyer returned "an" item, even if it's something other than what you sent, there is no way for eBay to know what you sent ... because there are scam sellers just as there are scam buyers!). 

So please just ignore that person and the reply I made to them.  What is far more important is the information I gave you in message #29.  Did you read it?  I know it's long, but I am offering you concrete advice on how to avoid this outrageous $3000 loss, when most here are saying there's no way to win.  You CAN but you need to pay attention to every detail and know what exact steps to take.

As @fbusoni told you, foreign buyers use freight forwarders here all the time.  You have probably shipped to many such businesses and didn't even realize it, because normally everything goes according to plan.  FF's are not a problem, and I do not believe they were involved in this fraudulent scam whatsoever.  -Your buyer claiming that company took the photos, I believe that is a lie; I believe the photos came right from the scam buyer's own camera. 

But let me show you something.  This is from eBay's policy on the Money Back Guarantee.



You see this?  -While eBay does not prohibit buyers from using a FF to receive their item, the DO NOT honor the Money Back Guarantee for items sent through a FF. 

And brace yourself, because I don't even expect you to receive that older Macbook that the scammer photographed.  In fact, I think you might receive an even more worthless item, like something from a dollar store ..... or ..... you won't receive any package at all, but the return tracking will show 'delivered' because it was sent to some business in your same zip code. 

What you have here is a fairly sophisticated scam, one we have seen posted here many times in slightly different ways, but they ARE beatable, if you just keep a hold of yourself and do as I instruct.  Don't even listen to the foreign eBay reps on the phone -they don't know what they're talking about.  Every experienced seller here can assure you of that. 

So please, go and carefully read what I said in message 29 (page 2).  And here is a question for you -do you have tracking on this return yet?  Is the package receiving scans showing it moving toward you yet?

[animal-house-8]

I think others on this forum have said, Never sell anything on ebay you are not willing to lose. It's a shame cause same thing happen to me and ebay just refunds the customer and tells me to deal with it and that I should adjust my prices to cover future theft, thats what the big box stores do. The problem is I'm just little guy not a big box store.

[mam98031]

This is a General Reply.

In regards to the MBG and shipping to a Freight Forwarder.  The mere fact you shipped to a FF does NOT void the MBG for the buyer.  It is once it gets reshipped by the FF to the buyer.  That act is what voids the MBG for the buyer.

[Anonymous]

 So after speaking with a couple of eBay agents, and going thru the return process, and receiving the laptop that was not what I sent (what they sent back was a 2017 15" MBP that didn't even fit properly in my shipping box), eBay has decided to make me whole on the sale. while also refunding the buyer his money.

The agent I spoke with was sympathetic to my issue, especially the issue of the drop shipper being stealthy inserted in to this process, which I considered tantamount to fraud, since I clearly chose not to sell/ship internationally. In his words, eBay is aware of these drop shipping services and can't do anything to prevent their use. I reject that notion and contend that eBay clearly can do something about them. Back in the day when PayPal was the default payment engine, every user had a 'PayPal verified' address that was linked to the credit card that was on file. If a user wasn't PayPal verified, a seller could choose not to sell to them and avoid problems like this.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. The return process that eBay has automatically shoe horns you in to processing a refund, and they make it real difficult to get an actual person on the phone to talk thru a scenario like mine. But once I actually got a person, they made it right.

I'm pretty sure I'm done selling anything on eBay after this though. It's just not worth the hassle.

[mam98031]

I think you meant Freight Forwarder, not Drop Shipper [completely different thing].  The buyer using a FF was not a "stealthy" insertion by a buyer, FF are often used by international buyers with a ship to address in the USA.  It is a common way for them to buy.  So the act of using an FF is not "fraud", it is just something new for you.  Big difference.  There were buyers that used **bleep** even when we had PayPal as our money processor.  Your issues with this transaction had NOTHING to do with the FF's address.  You are confusing a first time experience for you as being an unusual transaction.  Which it is not.

I think it is great that Ebay worked with you and applied the Seller Protection policy as written in the MBG.  That is how it should be.  It was the right thing to do.

Whatever you decide I hope it is a good move for yourself.  Happy Holidays.

[gurlcat]

Congratulations on getting made whole, even if you've decided the system is too hairy here.   I get it, even though if you'll recall I believed from the start that you would not lose this money.  That said if electronics are your specialty, they are also the most scam-attracting category, so I wouldn't blame you for moseying along. Good luck wherever you go!