Buyer trying to scam me out of $3K

[Anonymous]

I'm a 25 year casual eBay seller. I generally sell mostly recycled computers, cameras and music gear. I've maintained a near perfect record during that time of positive feedback. 

Last week I sold a 2023 MacBook Pro For about $3k. Buyer msg'd me asking for details that were already in the pics and description. He purchased the machine and I sent it out that morning after notification that his funds had cleared. Item was shipped via UPS and arrived on Saturday. 

Today he msgs me and says that what I shipped wasn't as advertised. Then he proceeds to share images of a computer that wasn't what I shipped. I can't tell exactly, but it looks like a 2016-2018 MacBook Pro (it has a Touch Bar where mine did not), and now he's asking for a refund.

He's a relatively new user and has about a dozen positive feedbacks. From what I'm reading on these forums this type of scam is fairly common and it sounds like eBay doesn't protect their sellers. 

eBay sent a msg after the return was initiated to say that they were holding funds until this dispute is resolved, but I've already been paid out and cleared out the account eBay has access to. 

From what I've read in these forums, it sounds like eBay is going to side with the buyer regardless of his sketchiness and my stellar reputation. What's the recourse in these situations? 

[mam98031]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I refuse to be scammed out of $3k. I've already removed the money from the account eBay has access to. Apart from ruining my seller rating or suspending my account (which isn't much of a threat after this debacle, as I'm sure I'll never choose to sell on this site again) what can eBay do?

---

I'm surprised Ebay didn't have those funds on hold.  Keep in mind, Ebay can come after you legally for that 3k if the buyer gets refunded.  It can also damage your credit rating as Ebay does have standing to get that money out of you one way or another, like most bill collectors.  You won't just lose your account on the site.  

When you get the item, please come back and tell us what you received and in what condition BEFORE you do anything.  Let us help you through this in the hopes of making it easier on you.

But don't make the mistake of thinking Ebay can't get that money out of you IF it comes to refunding the buyer.  AND make sure you have set aside these funds just in case refunding is necessary.

[Anonymous]

This has been a completely disheartening experience. I've reached out to eBay's resolution center, and all they do is send standard form emails back that tell me to go thru the process (basically to get screwed), and don't look at any of the facts that I've provided that bolster my claims. I get it's a he said/he said issue, but that the agents can't acknowledge that a return request that reads -

I ordered a MacBook Pro 2023 16 inch from this seller. I got wrong item (Old MacBook in bad condition). You can compare the ports of this MacBook and the photos of the ports in the seller s listing on eBay. https://support.apple.com/guide/macbook-pro/take-a-tour-of-macbook-pro-apd921215d6c/2023/mac/14.1 delivery address - LiteMF company in the US they provided photos upon receipt of this parcel

This scammer, according to his own admission, has an intermediary whose address he used to have me ship the laptop to, and is claiming they have provided images that don't match what I sold. And yet eBay is still going to force me to refund this scammers money and accept the piece of crap mule laptop he's going to send back to me. 

It looks like my only recourse will be to sing it from the mountain top at how crooked eBay has become and to sue them in small claims court. 

[lakefor94]

Tough situation @Anonymous 

If you had offered Free Returns and the buyer sends back something other than what you sent, you could do a 50% refund and the buyer would have to hit eBay up for the other 50%.  

The experienced crooks stay away from accounts that offer Free Returns. They want the item and a 100% refund right away with not having to ask eBay for the other 50%.

Good luck on this return.

[bgt_masters_of_tiki_d]

You don't have to offer free returns to get that. You only have to accept returns for 30 days buyer pays to have access to the 50% policy.

Its still a slap to the face. Same thing just happened to me a couple days ago. Cheap item $50 roughly. I was able to recover only $17. Ebay basically told me sorry not sorry, report them so we can do nothing about it. 

If it were me OP, I'd send a return label using USPS and go after them for mail fraud if they send bac a different laptop. Also depending on the locality of the buyer it could be considered felony theft as well. If you fill out a complaint with ic3.gov that will also help. Many years ago I was taken for over a grand from someone in California. I had to pester the ic3.gov agent in charge of the case and it took 9 months but my case was finally settled. I was given two options accept offer of restitution or press charges and get the guy and his wife thrown in jail. I was in the middle of buying a house and needed the money so I chose to get the payout but still regret not pressing charges.  

[ryry-jj]

3k...I'd file  police report and submit a copy  to eBay.  That is one of the things eBay is waiting on for anyone who was stolen from.   eBay expects you to take action with theft.  Depending on your state laws and the laws of the state to which it was shipped will depend on where & how much you can file for.  

Many sellers do nothing in these cases, but for $3K, I'd act

[ncprog87]

“This scammer, according to his own admission, has an intermediary whose address he used to have me ship the laptop to”.  That right there is supposed to void the MBG coverage…

[chapeau-noir]

Just a quick note: If the OP is not a top rated seller, he has to accept "free" returns to get the deduction.

If he's a top rated seller, he has to accept 30 day returns.

Not sure if OP is TRS or not.

But...this laptop was initially received by someone other than the OP? "delivery address - LiteMF company in the US they provided photos upon receipt of this parcel"

?? Can something be made of that? If it passed through another's hands, I don't see how the buyer can make a claim.

[uniquebargains3]

This situation is incredibly frustrating and highlights one of the vulnerabilities sellers face on eBay. Here’s how you can handle the issue and minimize your losses:

First, gather all your evidence. This includes photos of the MacBook Pro you shipped, the listing details, tracking information, and any communication with the buyer. If you have a serial number for the device, include that as part of your proof. If the buyer is claiming to have received a different item, having the serial number of the shipped product is crucial for your defense.

Contact eBay’s customer service directly to explain the situation. Clearly state that you believe this is a case of item switching and provide the evidence you've collected. Be firm but professional, and emphasize your long-standing record as a reputable seller.

In addition to eBay’s resolution center, file a report with UPS. If the package weight of the item they received differs from what you shipped, UPS may be able to provide supporting evidence.

If eBay ultimately sides with the buyer and you receive a returned item that isn’t the one you sent, escalate the case. Provide eBay with photos of the returned item alongside your original documentation. In cases where fraudulent returns are suspected, eBay may investigate further.

In extreme cases, you might also consider reporting the buyer to law enforcement or filing a complaint with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3). This step might seem drastic, but it helps create a record of the fraudulent activity.

To prevent future issues, consider including unique identifiers in your listings, like serial numbers, and photographing the packaging process, including the shipping label, to show what was shipped. While it doesn’t eliminate risks, it strengthens your case in disputes.

[lakefor94]

---

@chapeau-noir wrote:

Just a quick note: If the OP is not a top rated seller, he has to accept "free" returns to get the deduction.

If he's a top rated seller, he has to accept 30 day returns.

Not sure if OP is TRS or not.

But...this laptop was initially received by someone other than the OP? "delivery address - LiteMF company in the US they provided photos upon receipt of this parcel"

?? Can something be made of that? If it passed through another's hands, I don't see how the buyer can make a claim.

---

Correct @chapeau-noir 

I did check before I posted. The OP is not TRS.

[tools*]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I refuse to be scammed out of $3k. I've already removed the money from the account eBay has access to. Apart from ruining my seller rating or suspending my account (which isn't much of a threat after this debacle, as I'm sure I'll never choose to sell on this site again) what can eBay do?

---

It's probably time to walk away from eBay while you're ahead. Let them try to sue you and see what a judge thinks of their practices; and perhaps the media would find the story compelling.

[lakefor94]

"You don't have to offer free returns to get that. You only have to accept returns for 30 days buyer pays to have access to the 50% policy."

Not true, the OP is not TRS.

If a seller is not TRS, they have to offer Free Returns to have access to the 50% refund option.

If they are TRS, they only have to accept 30 day returns. 

[lakefor94]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I refuse to be scammed out of $3k. I've already removed the money from the account eBay has access to. Apart from ruining my seller rating or suspending my account (which isn't much of a threat after this debacle, as I'm sure I'll never choose to sell on this site again) what can eBay do?

---

They turn your debt over to collections and the collection agency starts contacting you.

[chapeau-noir]

I just wanted to clear up the eligibility for the damage deduction as others reading this thread may not know the distinction and I wanted to make sure there was no confusion.

At any rate - what about this package passing through someone else's hands before being handed over to the OP's buyer?

[gurlcat]

You guys, I know it's (almost?) unheard of for eBay to honor its' MBG policy against issuing refunds to buyers who used a freight forwarder, but look carefully at the OP's reply #17 ^ -the copy-paste of the buyer's message, namely the final sentence.  The buyer themselves said that a company (in the US, implying the buyer does not live in the US) was the delivery address and who opened, inspected, and photographed the laptop. 

If the buyer's own admission is not proof of using a FF, what would be?  Of course what they said there was almost certainly a lie; they almost certainly have not even received the forwarded package yet, and supplied a photo they took themselves of a different Macbook.  But in that lie they revealed something they must not have known was a big oopsie in itself.

@Anonymous  Hang with us and don't lose hope yet.  I have won a case similar to this (even got the scam buyer's account closed), so I can help with the process, but for now don't do any procedures until you get the package back.  All too often we see sellers doing things that are actually pointless (like videotaping themselves opening return packages) when what really matters is "paperwork" procedures, and in which order you perform them. 

As others have pointed out, it's unfortunate that you had No Returns on this item.  I'm not saying that guarantees you have no recourse, but it definitely won't help.  In the future you should always allow 30-day returns and I even recommend offering Free Returns, because if a really twisted "remorse" buyer doesn't want to pay for the postage they will purposely damage the item, in order to claim Item Not As Described, just to force a free label issuance.  -I've had one of those too.  

The case I mentioned before that was similar to yours, the differences were: I did have free returns, the item was only 1/100th the value of yours ($30) and the scammer's mistake was starting the return before the item was even delivered to the FF!!  But hopefully what you have is another magic bullet, one I didn't have, your buyer's own admission that the don't live at the delivery address and that someone at a company opened the package and took the photos.  -One thing you might do while waiting for the return delivery is to look up this 'LiteMF' company, maybe even give them a call and see if anyone there can verify their customer's claim about opening his package and taking pics of a laptop.  If they deny it, that (alone) would not be evidence in eBay's eyes, but it would be a useful detail to include in a report to USPS. 

-That report CAN help you, big time.  Think of eBay like your homeowner's insurance after you've been burglarized.  When that happens you file a police report, not because there's much hope of the police catching the burglar and getting your stuff back, but because it shows your insurance company that you involved police, something a crook would more likely avoid.  It's the same thing with eBay and the USPS.   What you must remember is there ARE scam sellers who advertise fillet minion in their listings but then ship baloney.  YOU know you didn't do that, but how could eBay know?  -THAT is your actual task, not proving the buyer is a scammer, but that you absolutely are not a scammer.  When that happens, what eBay will often do is refund the buyer out of their OWN pocket, rather than your account, in order to avoid picking sides.  So there's one hopeful possibility.  Of course the even better one would be if eBay believes this buyer is a scammer, doesn't give them a penny, and closes their account. 

Stay calm and stop thinking about singing from mountain tops and filing lawsuits.  You're nowhere near any of that yet.

[mam98031]

@Anonymous 

Have you received the item back now?