Buyer threatening to sue.. input needed please

[abbylilyd]

Sold a watch 40 days ago. 7 days after delivery The buyer said that the watch wasn’t working I expressed my concern and I was surprised because it was working fine when I packed it everything was very cordial I agreed to pay a portion of the cost of repairing.. but didn’t specify or agree to how much. buyer said they were going to get an estimate I asked for a copy of the estimate received it two weeks later it was $280 and the work had already been done. One reason I asked for the estimate was because I have a family jeweler and I wanted Her to take a look at what they were going to do and what it was going to cost my family jeweler was not going to charge me at all I explained this to the buyer and explained that I was shocked that it would be repaired without my consent with such a hefty price tag ..and said I wasn’t comfortable paying 180( that’s how much was demanded) when I never agreed to that amount nor was given an alternate option..now the buyer who is an attorney is threatening to sue me for the cost of the watch the cost of the repair and all of the legal fees this buyer lives in another state and is claiming I will have to come to their state for court. eBay says they have no case. PayPal says the same. Thoughts?

[pink.fish.rule]

No, that is not what I was referencing at ALL. Please don't assume you know better than I do what I'm talking about.

[mam98031]

---

@pink.fish.rule wrote:
No, that is not what I was referencing at ALL. Please don't assume you know better than I do what I'm talking about.

---

OK, my apologies.  What are you referring to?

[equid0x]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@monster-deals wrote:

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@wesk_36 wrote:

Despite the fact that you agreed to pay a portion of repairs, the amount was never negotiated or given. You asked for an estimate,  they said they repaired it.

I would tell her to return for a refund and leave it at that and then don't respond anymore.

The buyer said that they altered the item on their own, (if they actually did) which negates any protections.

They sound like a bully and attempting extortion, in my opinion.

It sounds like they are abusing their position to intimidate you.

I think your mistake was being nice to them by offering some resolution other than telling them to return for a refund.  Generally, bullies think nice people are entertainment and easy targets.

Truth is, they could actually try to sue, you can also refuse certified letters.

---

Why?  They are well outside of the seller's return policy.  It was the buyer that was slow to respond to the seller.  Why should the seller have to extend their return policy time frame?

---

Why? Because they fixed it.

You know full well paypal's return window is much longer than ebay's

---

They have altered the item.  The seller has no way of know what the buyer did to the item.  The seller did NOT give them permission to spend whatever they wanted to have some work done to the watch.  Now I haven't read every post on this thread, so I'm unsure if the buyer actually provided a receipt that is detailed to what was done to what item.  And the buyer was suppose to get back to the seller BEFORE actually having the item repaired.  

Just because someone files a claim in PP doesn't mean they will automatically win.  The seller has some pretty good proof here that they can supply PP if it come to this.  I have no idea how they may rule.

---

The seller does not have to authorize repairs or any specific dollar value.

If I sell you a car... and tell you it works. Then, you find out after purchase that the transmission has problems, and I refuse to refund your money or take it back. You can absolutely have the vehicle repaired and you can absolutely take me to court to recover your costs in doing so. A judge will agree, BTW. 

---

OMG NO!!!  Not happening.  Completely untrue.  

---

Better hope your state doesn't have a lemon law. Many of them do. 

A seller CANNOT intentionally misrepresent a product for sale and use that as an excuse to avoid warranty or refund. 

If you think I'm wrong, get the junker out of your back yard, put it on craigslist with an ad saying it works 100% and has no problems, and watch what happens. 

It absolutely WILL get you sued and the judge absolutely WILL order you to take the car back and return the buyer's money. The only way that wouldn't apply would be if substantial time has passed since the date of the sale... like 30 days... before a complaint was lodged by the buyer to the seller. 

---

OK, no one said anything about anyone "intentionally misrepresenting" anything.

Lemon laws have certain criteria that has to happen.  I've been through this in our state before on a new car I bought and had issues with.  Different states, different rules. 

But none of this applies to the subject of this thread or the OPs issue.

---

That's exactly what I said and I also made my point. 

[equid0x]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@directbuys2017 wrote:

BTW, unlike what one poster told you, if you buy a used car and the transmission fails two days later they are not entitled to return the vehicle or force the seller to pay for the repairs, it is the responsibility of the buyer to make sure the car is in working order prior to purchase.  Unless the seller knew that the transmission was bad and told the buyer it was in perfect condition there is no recourse and good luck convincing a judge that the transmission was bad prior to purchase.

---

Depends on whether you are in a lemon law state or not and also how the seller represented the item for sale. If the seller makes no representation and the buyer buys "As-Is" there is no claim. If the seller says it works and the transmission is blown, the buyer absolutely has a claim. 

---

Most used car sales are As IS.  Most will not fall under the guidelines of a Lemon Law.  Check the laws of that particular state for the specifics.  But chances are this won't fall under a Lemon Law.

---

Wrong. The law basically defaults to 1 year warranty in virtually every jurisdiction. 

Just the same as eBay defaults to 30 days warranty in virtually every jurisdiction. 

[equid0x]

---

@earlyant-77 wrote:

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@tellmemama wrote:

If I sell you a car... and tell you it works. Then, you find out after purchase that the transmission has problems, and I refuse to refund your money or take it back. You can absolutely have the vehicle repaired and you can absolutely take me to court to recover your costs in doing so. A judge will agree, BTW. 

Not even a little bit.  All vehicles are sold "as is" unless the seller offers a written warranty.  Now if I didn't perform my due diligence by having a mechanic look at the car before I bought it, any and all repairs are on me (again unless there is a warranty).  Your saying "it works" is called puffing.  Like saying it was only driven by a little old lady on Sundays to the Piggly Wiggly.

---

So... I just went and looked it up, and it looks like in the year 2019, every single state of the union has a lemon law. If the seller does not express a warranty period with the sale, it looks like every single state defaults to at least 1 year implicit warranty coverage, and possible more, depending on the state. Lemon laws do not only apply to licensed sellers. 

https://www.lemonlaw.com/state-lemon-laws/

At any rate, I was making a car analogy to try to make the situation relatable, not to debate the warranty periods on vehicles. 

It doesn't matter whether whats being sold is a car or now. A seller can never legally misrepresent an item for sale. 

---

"Both State Lemon Laws and Federal Warranty Laws are designed to provide relief to consumers who have purchased defective vehicles."

---

Yes. And what's your point? If the seller represents an item as working, and its found to be defective, the lemon law provides a minimum 1 year warranty without an express warranty from the seller. 

If the seller represents an item as working, and its found to be defective, eBay provides a minimum 30 day warranty from the seller. 

Am I missing something?

[equid0x]

---

@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

---

@earlyant-77 wrote:

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@tellmemama wrote:

If I sell you a car... and tell you it works. Then, you find out after purchase that the transmission has problems, and I refuse to refund your money or take it back. You can absolutely have the vehicle repaired and you can absolutely take me to court to recover your costs in doing so. A judge will agree, BTW. 

Not even a little bit.  All vehicles are sold "as is" unless the seller offers a written warranty.  Now if I didn't perform my due diligence by having a mechanic look at the car before I bought it, any and all repairs are on me (again unless there is a warranty).  Your saying "it works" is called puffing.  Like saying it was only driven by a little old lady on Sundays to the Piggly Wiggly.

---

So... I just went and looked it up, and it looks like in the year 2019, every single state of the union has a lemon law. If the seller does not express a warranty period with the sale, it looks like every single state defaults to at least 1 year implicit warranty coverage, and possible more, depending on the state. Lemon laws do not only apply to licensed sellers. 

https://www.lemonlaw.com/state-lemon-laws/

At any rate, I was making a car analogy to try to make the situation relatable, not to debate the warranty periods on vehicles. 

It doesn't matter whether whats being sold is a car or now. A seller can never legally misrepresent an item for sale. 

---

"Both State Lemon Laws and Federal Warranty Laws are designed to provide relief to consumers who have purchased defective vehicles."

---

Exactly and the manufacturer is the one who is responsible when it’s defective.   LEmon laws don’t cover buying a used car that ends up with issues from normal wear and tear.    

---

Wrong. Seller is responsible. Seller can take manufacturer to court if the car was new. 

[equid0x]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@monster-deals wrote:

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

aren't hiding them, they just aren't telling us they changed some things.  

---

...uh, yeah, that's kinda what secret means.

...and it has EVERYTHING to do with who you get on the phone.

That's day 1 ebay stuff.

---

No.  They aren't hidden, they are public.  That is not "secret".  We do have access to the policies anytime we want.  We can read them at any point in time without interference from anyone except possibly our internet connection.  

The problem is that when they update a policy, they don't always tell us.  That is a lack of communication and a lack of respect on the impact their changes may have on members.  

If the policies were to be "secret", then those policies would not be accessible on the internet at all.

---

I disagree. eBay regularly fails to follow their published policies under the guise of "this is our new policy and we are testing it out"

[equid0x]

---

@pink.fish.rule wrote:
Actually, I beg to differ. A couple of the blues have even said straight out on threads on these boards that there are "policies" which they do not and will not divulge in public.
After that was when posters started referencing the "super secret policies".

---

Yup. And they can't legally do that, either. They can only get away with it so long as the seller takes no legal action. 

[equid0x]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@pink.fish.rule wrote:
Actually, I beg to differ. A couple of the blues have even said straight out on threads on these boards that there are "policies" which they do not and will not divulge in public.
After that was when posters started referencing the "super secret policies".

---

Well yes.  There are things they don't divulge, you are correct on that.  But not what the other poster was referring to at all.

---

You seem to know a lot about this. What are these "things" (like eBay policies their customers are held to) that they "can't divulge?"

Can you please elucidate on this point?

[earlyant-77]

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@earlyant-77 wrote:

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@tellmemama wrote:

If I sell you a car... and tell you it works. Then, you find out after purchase that the transmission has problems, and I refuse to refund your money or take it back. You can absolutely have the vehicle repaired and you can absolutely take me to court to recover your costs in doing so. A judge will agree, BTW. 

Not even a little bit.  All vehicles are sold "as is" unless the seller offers a written warranty.  Now if I didn't perform my due diligence by having a mechanic look at the car before I bought it, any and all repairs are on me (again unless there is a warranty).  Your saying "it works" is called puffing.  Like saying it was only driven by a little old lady on Sundays to the Piggly Wiggly.

---

So... I just went and looked it up, and it looks like in the year 2019, every single state of the union has a lemon law. If the seller does not express a warranty period with the sale, it looks like every single state defaults to at least 1 year implicit warranty coverage, and possible more, depending on the state. Lemon laws do not only apply to licensed sellers. 

https://www.lemonlaw.com/state-lemon-laws/

At any rate, I was making a car analogy to try to make the situation relatable, not to debate the warranty periods on vehicles. 

It doesn't matter whether whats being sold is a car or now. A seller can never legally misrepresent an item for sale. 

---

"Both State Lemon Laws and Federal Warranty Laws are designed to provide relief to consumers who have purchased defective vehicles."

---

Yes. And what's your point? If the seller represents an item as working, and its found to be defective, the lemon law provides a minimum 1 year warranty without an express warranty from the seller. 

If the seller represents an item as working, and its found to be defective, eBay provides a minimum 30 day warranty from the seller. 

Am I missing something?

---

Yes - the point that the lemon law is for vehicles, not a faulty VCR or fidget spinner.

[equid0x]

---

@earlyant-77 wrote:

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@earlyant-77 wrote:

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@tellmemama wrote:

If I sell you a car... and tell you it works. Then, you find out after purchase that the transmission has problems, and I refuse to refund your money or take it back. You can absolutely have the vehicle repaired and you can absolutely take me to court to recover your costs in doing so. A judge will agree, BTW. 

Not even a little bit.  All vehicles are sold "as is" unless the seller offers a written warranty.  Now if I didn't perform my due diligence by having a mechanic look at the car before I bought it, any and all repairs are on me (again unless there is a warranty).  Your saying "it works" is called puffing.  Like saying it was only driven by a little old lady on Sundays to the Piggly Wiggly.

---

So... I just went and looked it up, and it looks like in the year 2019, every single state of the union has a lemon law. If the seller does not express a warranty period with the sale, it looks like every single state defaults to at least 1 year implicit warranty coverage, and possible more, depending on the state. Lemon laws do not only apply to licensed sellers. 

https://www.lemonlaw.com/state-lemon-laws/

At any rate, I was making a car analogy to try to make the situation relatable, not to debate the warranty periods on vehicles. 

It doesn't matter whether whats being sold is a car or now. A seller can never legally misrepresent an item for sale. 

---

"Both State Lemon Laws and Federal Warranty Laws are designed to provide relief to consumers who have purchased defective vehicles."

---

Yes. And what's your point? If the seller represents an item as working, and its found to be defective, the lemon law provides a minimum 1 year warranty without an express warranty from the seller. 

If the seller represents an item as working, and its found to be defective, eBay provides a minimum 30 day warranty from the seller. 

Am I missing something?

---

Yes - the point that the lemon law is for vehicles, not a faulty VCR or fidget spinner.

---

I already plainly stated that on the thread. What is your point?

[abbylilyd]

There seems to be some inference that i possibly KNOWINGLY sold an item listed as working when it was not..this is very troubling that after everything i have written..someone would suggest it or even present it as hypothetical. Kinda **bleep** me off actually. Ive been through ENOUGH with this HORRIBLE situation..i dont need that now as well. For the very LAST TIME..the watch was working fine when i took pictures. Prior to that and after the fact all the way up until i sealed it in a package WORKING. Period. 

[mam98031]

---

@abbylilyd wrote:

There seems to be some inference that i possibly KNOWINGLY sold an item listed as working when it was not..this is very troubling that after everything i have written..someone would suggest it or even present it as hypothetical. Kinda **bleep** me off actually. Ive been through ENOUGH with this HORRIBLE situation..i dont need that now as well. For the very LAST TIME..the watch was working fine when i took pictures. Prior to that and after the fact all the way up until i sealed it in a package WORKING. Period. 

---

Try not to take it personally.  Some posters like to impose facts not stated on a thread to mix things up a bit.  

Personally I think you did more than you even should have to try and work with this buyer that is clearly trying to take advantage of you.  I hope that is actually the way you feel as well.  You appear to be a very good seller.  Try not to take this other stuff to heart.

[myangelandmyprincess]

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

---

@earlyant-77 wrote:

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@tellmemama wrote:

If I sell you a car... and tell you it works. Then, you find out after purchase that the transmission has problems, and I refuse to refund your money or take it back. You can absolutely have the vehicle repaired and you can absolutely take me to court to recover your costs in doing so. A judge will agree, BTW. 

Not even a little bit.  All vehicles are sold "as is" unless the seller offers a written warranty.  Now if I didn't perform my due diligence by having a mechanic look at the car before I bought it, any and all repairs are on me (again unless there is a warranty).  Your saying "it works" is called puffing.  Like saying it was only driven by a little old lady on Sundays to the Piggly Wiggly.

---

So... I just went and looked it up, and it looks like in the year 2019, every single state of the union has a lemon law. If the seller does not express a warranty period with the sale, it looks like every single state defaults to at least 1 year implicit warranty coverage, and possible more, depending on the state. Lemon laws do not only apply to licensed sellers. 

https://www.lemonlaw.com/state-lemon-laws/

At any rate, I was making a car analogy to try to make the situation relatable, not to debate the warranty periods on vehicles. 

It doesn't matter whether whats being sold is a car or now. A seller can never legally misrepresent an item for sale. 

---

"Both State Lemon Laws and Federal Warranty Laws are designed to provide relief to consumers who have purchased defective vehicles."

---

Exactly and the manufacturer is the one who is responsible when it’s defective.   LEmon laws don’t cover buying a used car that ends up with issues from normal wear and tear.    

---

Wrong. Seller is responsible. Seller can take manufacturer to court if the car was new. 

---

This not wrong. In fact the lemon law for my state specifically says the manufacturer is responsible if it’s defective.   Defective is not just something that just broke its a flaw in the production   

[mam98031]

How Lemon Laws are Applied

The federal government, as well as state governments, enacted laws designed to reduce lemons problems. Sometimes these laws are labeled lemon laws by legislators, particularly when they are designed to provide a process by which consumers can rectify recurring problems they experienced after purchasing a car, boat or other large-ticket item....

...For example, the North Carolina Lemon Law applies to new cars, trucks, motorcycles and vans bought in the state, and requires manufacturers to repair most defects occurring within the first 24 months or 24,000 miles.

Not all lemon laws are labeled as such. The federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act requires sellers of products that include full warranties to fix any problems with these products within a reasonable time and without charge. The Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act (DTPA) applies to a potentially wide swath of activity that could cause lemons problems. The DTPA allows consumers to sue for triple damages if they suffer a harm as a result of buying a good or service they would not have bought if the seller had disclosed negative information he knew at the time of the sale. The federal Dodd-Frank Act passed in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis established the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the mission of which, in part, is to protect consumers from lemon investments.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lemon-laws.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_law

Hopefully we can now put this to rest.