Buyer threatening to sue.. input needed please

[abbylilyd]

Sold a watch 40 days ago. 7 days after delivery The buyer said that the watch wasn’t working I expressed my concern and I was surprised because it was working fine when I packed it everything was very cordial I agreed to pay a portion of the cost of repairing.. but didn’t specify or agree to how much. buyer said they were going to get an estimate I asked for a copy of the estimate received it two weeks later it was $280 and the work had already been done. One reason I asked for the estimate was because I have a family jeweler and I wanted Her to take a look at what they were going to do and what it was going to cost my family jeweler was not going to charge me at all I explained this to the buyer and explained that I was shocked that it would be repaired without my consent with such a hefty price tag ..and said I wasn’t comfortable paying 180( that’s how much was demanded) when I never agreed to that amount nor was given an alternate option..now the buyer who is an attorney is threatening to sue me for the cost of the watch the cost of the repair and all of the legal fees this buyer lives in another state and is claiming I will have to come to their state for court. eBay says they have no case. PayPal says the same. Thoughts?

[southern*sweet*tea]

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/small-claims-book/chapter21-7.html

"Small Claims Court

Can a defrauded eBay buyer take the matter to a local small claims court? Usually, the answer is no. (To learn more about small claims court, see Nolo's Small Claims Court area.)

Does the court have personal jurisdiction? The key question in eBay cases is whether the court has "personal jurisdiction" over the seller. If the seller is in the same state as the buyer or has sufficient "commercial contacts" with that state, the small claims court may have personal jurisdiction and the buyer can file the matter in that state's small claims court. (To learn more about personal jurisdiction, see Nolo's article Personal Jurisdiction: In Which Court Can I Sue the Defendant?)

However, in most eBay transactions, the seller and buyer are in different states and the seller has not done sufficient business in the buyer's state in order for the court to have personal jurisdiction over the seller.

Suing in the seller's home state. A buyer could solve the personal jurisdiction problem by filing a lawsuit in a small claims court in the seller's home state. The process of traveling to another state to file a claim, however, is often too expensive to merit the lawsuit. And even if the buyer wins a small claims court case, he or she may still have to force the seller to pay the judgment, a time-consuming process known as enforcing the judgment. (To learn more about enforcing judgments, see Nolo's article I Won My Case, Now Where's My Money?) Except in the case of high-value items, pursuing a small claims action over an eBay transaction is probably too cumbersome for most buyers and sellers."

Just throwing this out here...

[monster-deals]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@wesk_36 wrote:

Despite the fact that you agreed to pay a portion of repairs, the amount was never negotiated or given. You asked for an estimate,  they said they repaired it.

I would tell her to return for a refund and leave it at that and then don't respond anymore.

The buyer said that they altered the item on their own, (if they actually did) which negates any protections.

They sound like a bully and attempting extortion, in my opinion.

It sounds like they are abusing their position to intimidate you.

I think your mistake was being nice to them by offering some resolution other than telling them to return for a refund.  Generally, bullies think nice people are entertainment and easy targets.

Truth is, they could actually try to sue, you can also refuse certified letters.

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Why?  They are well outside of the seller's return policy.  It was the buyer that was slow to respond to the seller.  Why should the seller have to extend their return policy time frame?

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Why? Because they fixed it.

You know full well paypal's return window is much longer than ebay's

[monster-deals]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

No, do not tell them to “F” OFF,  just tell them to send off for a refund and that’s it folks, no more contact, no more anything.

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Not at least until 60 days or they have already left feedback...that's fer sure

[mam98031]

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@monster-deals wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@wesk_36 wrote:

Despite the fact that you agreed to pay a portion of repairs, the amount was never negotiated or given. You asked for an estimate,  they said they repaired it.

I would tell her to return for a refund and leave it at that and then don't respond anymore.

The buyer said that they altered the item on their own, (if they actually did) which negates any protections.

They sound like a bully and attempting extortion, in my opinion.

It sounds like they are abusing their position to intimidate you.

I think your mistake was being nice to them by offering some resolution other than telling them to return for a refund.  Generally, bullies think nice people are entertainment and easy targets.

Truth is, they could actually try to sue, you can also refuse certified letters.

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Why?  They are well outside of the seller's return policy.  It was the buyer that was slow to respond to the seller.  Why should the seller have to extend their return policy time frame?

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Why? Because they fixed it.

You know full well paypal's return window is much longer than ebay's

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They have altered the item.  The seller has no way of know what the buyer did to the item.  The seller did NOT give them permission to spend whatever they wanted to have some work done to the watch.  Now I haven't read every post on this thread, so I'm unsure if the buyer actually provided a receipt that is detailed to what was done to what item.  And the buyer was suppose to get back to the seller BEFORE actually having the item repaired.  

Just because someone files a claim in PP doesn't mean they will automatically win.  The seller has some pretty good proof here that they can supply PP if it come to this.  I have no idea how they may rule.

[monster-deals]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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I have no idea how they may rule.

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I do. 

[mam98031]

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@monster-deals wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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I have no idea how they may rule.

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I do. 

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That is silly, unless you are privy to all the OPs information, the buyer's information and work for PP.  So while you may want to throw shade on what I said earlier, which is fine, as our opinions don't have to match.  The buyer may win a PP claim.  But they also may not if the seller reacts quickly and gets all the info over to them.  I've personally won claims / chargebacks with PP that other members said couldn't be won.  Hopefully the OP won't have to deal with it anyway as the buyer may not file with PP.

[equid0x]

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@lamber9347 wrote:

Just adding one more "forget about it" for you to hear....

• Anyone can sue anyone in a court of law, but in order to win they have to prove their case and only are put in whole by the courts
• These types of sales are not under any sort of warranty
• PayPal and eBay are correct they have no case
• They can't sue you for the cost of the watch PLUS the cost of the repair
• Court fees are automatically paid by the defendant if the plaintiff wins
• In small claims court a plaintiff cannot hire an attorney then charge the defendant for those fees, small claims court is created with no need for any attorneys at all
• You never agreed to any amount for the repair
• Any repair would have to be reasonable
• They would have to file in your jurisdiction
• They are not an attorney....

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Oookaaayyy... I'll bite.

Not trying to call you out specifically, @lamber9347, but I feel like there is a lot of misinformation here....

• Anyone can sue anyone in a court of law, but in order to win they have to prove their case and only are put in whole by the courts

True.

• These types of sales are not under any sort of warranty

False. On eBay, you gave the buyer whatever warranty was in the listing. If it was a no-returns listing, then the buyer still has MBG.

• PayPal and eBay are correct they have no case

eBay & PayPal have no case in terms of your agreement with your buyer.  You stated you agreed to pay for part of the repairs. This implies a) that you knew the item was not working and b) that you agreed to pay for repair (what part of that is irrelevant at this point)

• They can't sue you for the cost of the watch PLUS the cost of the repair

Anyone can sue you for anything at any time whether there is any legal basis or not. You "opened the door" by agreeing to pay for part of the repair and now you're on the hook for it. What part of that? Well, if no agreement can be made, a court can decide.

• Court fees are automatically paid by the defendant if the plaintiff wins

Not by default in the US, anyways.

• In small claims court a plaintiff cannot hire an attorney then charge the defendant for those fees, small claims court is created with no need for any attorneys at all

Not sure about this. In my jurisdiction, you can sue for anything legally provable up to $10K in small claims court. Doesn't matter if its a lawyer consult fee. This very probably varies depending on what jurisdiction you're being sued in.

• You never agreed to any amount for the repair

Doesn't matter. Seller has already stated (here, if nowhere else) that they agreed to pay for part of the repair. Plaintiff and Defendant will need to agree on a settlement now or let the courts decide.

• Any repair would have to be reasonable

There is no legal precept for "reasonable repair." However, plaintiff will likely have to show a judge an actual receipt for their losses. The judge will most likely rule that those costs must be reimbursed.

• They would have to file in your jurisdiction

True. >IF< you have not already receive a default judgment for a no-show in the plaintiff's jurisdiction you may be able to request a change of jurisdiction and file a motion for dismissal. Whether or not you win this is up to the judge. Theoretically, you should, if you were not sued within your home jurisdiction.  The judge can do whatever they want and if its not in your favor, you're stuck with it for this case, although you may have the right to appeal.

• They are not an attorney....

This doesn't mean anything at all. They don't have to be an attorney to file a suit. Anyone can file a suit and self-represent, if they want to.

[equid0x]

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@abbylilyd wrote:

Question posted by another person,  “can a lawyer intimidate me” 

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Regardless of the reason, it would be a separate case. The OP will still have to go to court for the original case and then they can file another for malpractice to seek to have the lawyer disbarred for "intimidation."

Waste of time. 

[equid0x]

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@fashionandform wrote:

I agree with wesk_36, If a buyer has altered an item ( i.e 'repaired' it)  it negates protections.  Extortion is not taken lightly by Ebay-  I would save all my documents and correspondence and talk to someone in Ebays trust and safety dept and see what they say ( get their name, date of call etc).  Also if this person leaves you neg FB you would have a good case for removal.

Also report him now ('report this buyer' in drop down menu) .  Block him too.

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This would only apply if the seller did not agree to pay for repairs within the return window. Its not extortion if the seller agrees to it. 

[abbylilyd]

After speaking with PayPal.. many times over this.. the answer from them is clear: the absolute ONLY way the buyer will see any money back is if they return the watch. I have already sent over all correspondence to them to get ahead of it. 4 different representatives said the same thing.. return the watch, and then I will refund her the price of the watch, I will not be responsible for repairs arbitrarily done. I was also advised not to send any money unless I am provided a itemized receipt, showing payment made, ask for it to be notarized and mailed to me.  And a refund or partial refund for repairs would be my decision, I would not be obligated.  There has still been no word since the 9th. But every time my eBay activity prompt goes off, my heart sinks a bit lol. “Is it a message from her??” 🤢

[equid0x]

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@ed8108 wrote:

 If he has represented himself as being an attorney, inquirey to verify that he is admitted to practice can easily be undertaken.

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Yes, if they did that check their state BAR for registration. 

[equid0x]

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@albany_sellers wrote:

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@abbylilyd wrote:

Sold a watch 40 days ago. 7 days after delivery The buyer said that the watch wasn’t working I expressed my concern and I was surprised because it was working fine when I packed it everything was very cordial I agreed to pay a portion of the cost of repairing.. but didn’t specify or agree to how much. buyer said they were going to get an estimate I asked for a copy of the estimate received it two weeks later it was $280 and the work had already been done. One reason I asked for the estimate was because I have a family jeweler and I wanted Her to take a look at what they were going to do and what it was going to cost my family jeweler was not going to charge me at all I explained this to the buyer and explained that I was shocked that it would be repaired without my consent with such a hefty price tag ..and said I wasn’t comfortable paying 180( that’s how much was demanded) when I never agreed to that amount nor was given an alternate option..now the buyer who is an attorney is threatening to sue me for the cost of the watch the cost of the repair and all of the legal fees this buyer lives in another state and is claiming I will have to come to their state for court. eBay says they have no case. PayPal says the same. Thoughts?

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Nobody else is going to state the obvious? There is no repair quote, the watch never had any issue and he never took it anywhere to be looked at.

This guy is just trying to get a discount by saying that, it's the oldest trick in the book. "oh my god the item showed up broken but LOOK i have a quote from a repair shop! Plz give me money now!"

If he opens a case, well it's too bad he modified the item since he apparently had repairs done on it. His buyer protection is 100% void now and he can pi** right off.

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This would have worked until the seller agreed to pay for repair. 

[abbylilyd]

Not one time did I verbally agree to pay for repairs.. ever. And as stated.. the watch was working when I shipped it. When she told me it wasn’t working I expressed dismay and confusion, she said she got an estimate, stated the amount to which I replied “ wow, that’s a lot. What are your thoughts?” She replied she wanted me to pay two thirds of the amount. My response was send me the estimate. Not one time did I agree to ANYTHING all I said was “ I would like to work something out”

[equid0x]

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@abbylilyd wrote:

I did tell Her that It didn’t seem like we are going to reach an amicable solution that would make either of us happy ,So she should just return the watch and that’s when she responded with this: “This is a unique and rare item and as such I have the option to mitigate my damages and keep the item. You’re transacting business in Austin Tx by selling goods to Austin residents so I would be filing in Travis County and serving you with papers in Livonia. You will need to appear in court in Travis County.”. My question is how does she figure I’m transacting business in Austin? so that makes it feasible for her to sue me from Austin, because I am in Michigan selling to someone in Austin?   I’m telling you Folks..she is an attorney she’s an entertainment attorney licensed in both Austin and Los Angeles and I am just flabbergasted that an attorney who can actually pass the California bar which is the hardest one to pass (so I’ve been told) ... would make such an error in judgment by threatening..Intimidating and all in all just being completely incorrect in her reasoning and logic and thinking?? Yeah.. With all the research I’ve done and the input I received here I feel like I could Pass the California bar if someone like that can pass it then most definitely it’s not THAT HARD

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Cali if chock full-o-crazies and I'm not surprised. If what you quoted from her is correct then its not a legal threat - meaning it won't classify as a threat. Its legal to tell someone what you're going to do. Its illegal to tell someone you're going to do something against them if they don't do what you ask. Get it? Also, if she says "maybe," "if," "when this happens I will" or anything else with a condition then its a conditional threat which means its legal in most places, too. 

I'm not defending her, but she hasn't actually legally threatened you. She's stated that she will file in Travis Cty and you will need to show(this would be correct)... if that's in your state, you may be compelled to appear. 

Cali has nothing to do with it if she's suing you in Texas. 

According to your post, you've already stated that you agreed to pay for repair. She can hold you to that. 

Agreeing to return for a full refund won't technically get you out of it... but she will have no monetary claim, since you'll have "made her whole" at that point. If you agree to full refund and she returns, you may still have to appear if she does not drop the case, but if you can show a judge you gave her a refund, the case is most likely going to be thrown out IMHO. 

If she refuses to return and refuses to refund and still wants to file a case... I think a judge is going to have to rule. Theoretically, she can't sue you for additional value or whatnot at that point, but she can still sue for original losses. She might be able to make a case that she's owed more... time, personal losses... but on a low value case I kinda doubt it. 

I am not a lawyer and nothing I say is legal advice. I have only worked for lawyers in the past and this **bleep** is my own opinion and nothing else. 

[abbylilyd]

Went back and re read them, sure enough.. I didn’t verbally state I would pay anything. In my mind saying I would like to work something out is my way of saying if we can reach a feasible agreement or do our due diligence in getting multiple opinions and agree on on amount prior to it being fixed then I would have been ok paying a portion .. so when I stated I agreed to pay a portion, I did kind of, but not technically.