Buyer threatening to open "Non Delivery" case--while item is still in transit!

[stephenjf510]

So here's a weird one--I sent an item via Media Mail on 5/12 (exactly one week ago today), and yesterday the buyer sent me a curt message: "Where's my item? Hope delivered on Thursday or filing a case". I looked at tracking and it turns out the item was "missent" and is now at a USPS location further from the buyer's address than a previous tracked location. 

However, it's only been a week and Media Mail can take up to 10 days under normal circumstances, sometimes longer. I (politely) went back and forth with the buyer a bit, with their most recent message (after I suggested they file a claim with USPS if they're concerned) being: "I will file a PayPal claim for non delivery. We will see, give it to Monday."

At this point there's no reason to think that the item is not going to make it to the buyer within the next few days, but it may not get there by Monday, knowing USPS. Can I be forced to pay a refund in this situation?  And if so, what would happen if I have to refund and then the package eventually gets to them? The weirdest thing is that the buyer is also a seller with thousands of transactions, including lots that would probably be Media Mail, so they should understand how this all works.

[slippinjimmy]

---

@dentalsales4u wrote:

I was under the impression that if buyer files an INR case and you can prove that it shipped on time and is moving in transit, eBay will extend the time to give it a few more days before refunding the buyer.

Am I wrong thinking this?

---

You are not wrong, I have replied to INR requests a few times where tracking showed it was in transit and the last tracking was only a few days old. I didn't even have to call eBay to get an extension they sent me a notice that they had put the request on hold.

These were during the peak of Covid delays so the automatic thing might not still be in effect requiring you to contact eBay for the extension.

The weirdest thing is that the buyer is also a seller with thousands of transactions

My experience as well, sellers are almost always the ones who are a problem, they probably got a few late shipment dings and now they want to spread the pain around.

[downunder-61]

Please advise the customer to open INR in eBay, that way If you voluntarily refund the buyer before an INR is escalated to eBay and the item is delivered within 30 days of the case being closed, you are eligible for reimbursement from eBay on appeal if you can not get the buyer to repay you.

More details on how eBay is currently handling INR’s, including extensive details and documentation, can be found here

[slippinjimmy]

---

@heckofagame wrote:

If there is no tracking, there is no update to give. 

---

All Media Mail comes with tracking, even before 2008 when it became automatic you could pay an extra 19 cents to have it added.

[stephenjf510]

Just to clarify, do you mean have them open an INR in eBay as opposed to PayPal?

[hollis1857]

I have never had an undelivered complaint in 1000 transactions in the last 9 months until this week and I've had two. Both made claims they never got item, both with USPS tracking info in ebay from the outset, both showed mailbox delivery on tracking. They both wanted refunds. I refused given there is undeniable proof of delivery and received my first negative feedback that only said "never seen item". I replied very Kindly to feedback and requested feedback revision. Nothing. Asked ebay to remove, they just flat said no after talking to three people. First day with zero sales since feedback was posted yesterday. So, with no recourse and pride not being important when you need to buy groceries. I refunded them both and apologized in very nice messages. I am just keeping my fingers crossed that they will revise. Otherwise, this will be devastating for me.  I have never heard from them again.

I don't believe in coincidence and 2 unvalidated in a week is enough for me to know its deliberate and widespread. Both of my scammers had double digit transaction numbers, one from MD and one from NY. Both first time buying from me

[stephenjf510]

That's horrible. I hope they reverse their feedback, and I also hope eBay is aware of what's going on if this is a new trend. 

[downunder-61]

---

@stephenjf510 wrote:

Just to clarify, do you mean have them open an INR in eBay as opposed to PayPal?

---

Yes, if they open it in Paypal then you have no recourse for an appeal with eBay

[downunder-61]

@hollis1857  Contact eBay on social media to get that neg removed, if you provided tracking proving delivery in to the INR case the buyer opened, you are free and clear.

https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness  http://www.twitter.com/askebay

Send a private message.  Include your user ID, email address, phone number, and a brief

message. 

Edited to add:

Actually, they should not have been able to leave FB because you would have won the case??

How did this actually go down?

Did you refund in time or did eBay have to step in?

or was all of this just via messages?

[kensgiftshop]

---

@stephenjf510 wrote:

I hadn't thought about trying to intercept--what would be the intent there? As far as I know the package will still be delivered to the right place, just slightly delayed.

I use Media Mail for shipping vinyl records, since that's standard practice and the most economical way. I doubt there's a way to intercept with MM, but there may be.

You think they'd win a dispute, even though in this situation the item is still on the way?

---

The buyer can open an INR one day after the estimated delivery date.

If there is recent tracking, they might put the case on hold for a few extra days to see if it does get delivered.

[12345jamesstamps]

USPS in my experiences has been slow lately plus tracking not showing up and such.

I have gone to post office with tracking and usually find where items are in transit.

Even though there is an expected delivery date I notice eBay gives a few extra days after expected delivery before they can open a case usually. If they open a case I would not respond in the case but email them personally first. If item is late it should arrive before you have to respond to case to close it.

But make sure you close case before the date. Open case will usually hold future amount of money the refund is.

You have tracking and I wouldn't worry.

I have had same replies "Where is my item?" That's when I go to the post office to find out what's going on 

and tell the buyer politely and business-like what has happened.

Sounds like buyer might ask for a partial refund if item doesn't show up on expected date. I never give refunds

flat out. I tell buyers to open a resolution so I can refund them. But i wait until the day before to refund them if necessary.

[kensgiftshop]

---

@stephenjf510 wrote:

The weird thing is the buyer is him/herself a seller with thousands of transactions and 100% positive feedback. They sell records via Media Mail all the time so they know how it works, and it seems unlikely they'd be a scammer.

---

Sometimes a seller is the worst buyer.

If they file an INR, wouldn't make them a scammer, they just want to make sure they get their item or money back.

There's been a few cases where the buyer will finally receive the Media Mail package 2 or 3 months after a refund was given.

[stephenjf510]

Yeah, I think I know what happened as far as USPS is concerned, without having to go to my post office--it was "missent" to a different PO but not too far from where it should have been sent, so hopefully it won't delay things more than a few days. Normally I wouldn't be worried since everything is documented and the item isn't lost or anything (or even late yet, technically), but reading these horror stories about scammers has me concerned. It's hard to believe someone with 100% positive feedback as a buyer and seller would try to pull a scam like this but I guess stranger things have happened. 

[hollis1857]

I'm the last person in the world without social media by choice. However, it that is an actual way to get it done, I will do it temporarily.

If the tracking is automatically listed with the order because I shipped with ebay USPS, do I then also have to somehow have to add that to the open case with a screen shot etc? I did with one but not the other, and I can see how this may require that level of spoon feeding.

They left the feedback, right before opening the case.

[downunder-61]

---

@hollis1857 wrote:

I'm the last person in the world without social media by choice. However, it that is an actual way to get it done, I will do it temporarily.

Easy to do and you can just use it for eBay contact

If the tracking is automatically listed with the order because I shipped with ebay USPS, do I then also have to somehow have to add that to the open case with a screen shot etc

No screen shot needed but you need to enter the tracking number into the actual case 

I did with one but not the other, and I can see how this may require that level of spoon feeding. The neg for the one you did not provide delivery for will maybe stand.

They left the feedback, right before opening the case.

If you had won the case the FB would have been removed

---

Read up on the MBG  - link below to see how best to handle these cases........

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

[hollis1857]

Great Scott!!! I actually got a twitter account and "Graham" explained the "why" of the automatic denials and is taking the feedback down!!! Downunder-61.....thank you thank you thank you for the advice!!