Buyer threatening to open "Non Delivery" case--while item is still in transit!

[stephenjf510]

So here's a weird one--I sent an item via Media Mail on 5/12 (exactly one week ago today), and yesterday the buyer sent me a curt message: "Where's my item? Hope delivered on Thursday or filing a case". I looked at tracking and it turns out the item was "missent" and is now at a USPS location further from the buyer's address than a previous tracked location. 

However, it's only been a week and Media Mail can take up to 10 days under normal circumstances, sometimes longer. I (politely) went back and forth with the buyer a bit, with their most recent message (after I suggested they file a claim with USPS if they're concerned) being: "I will file a PayPal claim for non delivery. We will see, give it to Monday."

At this point there's no reason to think that the item is not going to make it to the buyer within the next few days, but it may not get there by Monday, knowing USPS. Can I be forced to pay a refund in this situation?  And if so, what would happen if I have to refund and then the package eventually gets to them? The weirdest thing is that the buyer is also a seller with thousands of transactions, including lots that would probably be Media Mail, so they should understand how this all works.

[stephenjf510]

I'm honestly shocked that that's the policy. We're talking about something that's at worst a few days beyond eBay's original ETA (and still probably within the normal realistic ETA range for MM), not lost or damaged. Even a completely lost item coming out of the seller's pocket seems unfair, but I understand why that's the way it works. But we're just talking about a slightly delayed item.

The weird thing is the buyer is him/herself a seller with thousands of transactions and 100% positive feedback. They sell records via Media Mail all the time so they know how it works, and it seems unlikely they'd be a scammer.

[lamber9347]

@stephenjf510 

To answer some of your questions: 

Can I be forced to pay a refund in this situation? 

If buyer opens an INR case, that will give you a few more days where the item may be delivered. If it's not delivered within that time frame you will lose the case and have to refund the buyer. There is no way around that. 

And if so, what would happen if I have to refund and then the package eventually gets to them? 

Once you refund the buyer that is it. If item gets delivered anytime afterwards then they get it for free. Most likely what your buyer is aiming for since they are an experienced seller. No one can force the buyer to pay you a second time. 

I understand you mainly sell vinyl records but this is the chance you take by using the cheaper method of MM. The post office has made MM be bottom of the barrel lately so expect more of these to pop up for you. Best of luck to you..... 

[heckofagame]

If there is no tracking, there is no update to give. 

[stuff4divas]

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@stephenjf510 wrote:

Yes, buyer checked tracking and is aware of what's going on. Just seems weird that they'd file a claim against me just because the item is a few days late (which is very common, and of course USPS's fault, not mine). I've had things be delayed by weeks due to USPS issues and I never would have thought to file a claim against the seller.

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Sounds like someone who knows the system, like u said, a seller who uses MM, and wants a freebee.

Ebay will give you time once an item not received case is opened as long as the last tracking date is not too far out. Calling the CS to make them aware of the situation can help bc it shows eBay you are on it and there will be a Service Request # you should ask for in case u need to have it referred to into the future.

Here is eBay policy>

Item not received requests

If a buyer opens an item not received request, and you haven't already uploaded tracking, you will have 3 business days to upload tracking and respond to the buyer. In order to be protected from an "Item not received" claim, the tracking must be from one of the shipping carriers integrated with eBay and must show an acceptance scan to prove shipping.

Item not received requests will close automatically within 24 hours if tracking details show the item has been delivered to the buyer's ZIP code.

Both you and the buyer will get an email notification. The buyer will be able to ask eBay to step in within that 24 hours if they still haven't received the item.

[firejake2003]

It's possible the buyer is just blowing hot air in hopes you'll just jump and cave to his threat.  Just keep in communication with them and watch the tracking.  That's the best you can do right now.  If he files a claim, respond to it appropriately with tracking info and maybe ebay will work with you on it.  If it's a rare thing for you as a seller, sometimes ebay will refund the buyer without dinging you or your funds since you can prove you did your part for the buyer.

[stephenjf510]

That's good to hear. Hopefully that'll be the case in my situation.

[coolections]

I believe you are correct and at this point it is a non-issue. The OP needs to stop the back & forths with this buyer.

[chapeau-noir]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Since eBay promised the shipment would be delivered today, you would lose any dispute.

So be prepared to refund.

And the buyer does not seem willing to be reasonable.

So be prepared to refund.

Nonetheless, when  you do refund, let the customer know that when the shipment does arrive he can reimburse you using Paypal. You may be able to give your PP address in the message.

I think that when the seller can provide a tracking number, which shows the shipment is in transit, eBay has been known to give an extended window for delivery.

But be prepared to refund.

Is Media Mail cheap enough to make the occasional Dispute worthwhile?

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If the item is under about 11-12 oz I ship first class.  The rest of the time, unless it's a very expensive item (i.e., I sold a DVD set for about $100 and then I used priority), media mail is cheap enough to worth the occasional hassle.

ETA: I think this very large seller should know better and may be looking for a freebie "Hey, may as well, I'm playing by the rules, right?", Yes.

[stephenjf510]

Just seems strange that a big seller would be trying to pull a scam like this, but maybe I haven't been on eBay long enough. I've heard of people claiming damage or incorrect descriptions to try to get a refund, but making threatening noises about a claim simply because of a mail delay, BEFORE the original ETA, is new one for me. 

Anyway, I've done everything right so far and will continue to do so. I shipped on time, tracking has been transparent, I've communicated with the buyer politely, etc. It sounds like I'll likely have a few days at least for the item to be delivered after a claim is filed, if it comes to that, so hopefully it'll work out. 

[m60driver]

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@stephenjf510 wrote:

Yes, buyer checked tracking and is aware of what's going on. Just seems weird that they'd file a claim against me just because the item is a few days late.

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Experienced buyers know there is a good chance of getting a free item when something gets delayed in the mail.  Once it gets past a certain deadline date then they will get a refund and if the item happens to show up later then they also get a free item.  There is nothing weird, just part of human nature for far too many folks.

[stephenjf510]

Yeah, Media Mail is just so well established as the standard for shipping records, I never really questioned it before. Most of the records I sell go for $15-20, and most buyers don't want to pay more than $5 or $6 shipping on top of that. 

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@stephenjf510 wrote:

Just seems strange that a big seller would be trying to pull a scam like this, but maybe I haven't been on eBay long enough.

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Sellers very often are nightmare buyers.

[stephenjf510]

Wow, I have bought a lot on eBay over the past couple years (and sold a bit too) and it would never have crossed my mind to attempt this. I mean, it's obviously unethical (especially since a large buyer/seller knows better than anyone that sometimes mail gets delayed) even if technically not against the rules. I could see someone trying this if eBay or PayPal were the ones taking the hit, but doing so when it's a small-time seller just seems cruel. 

To be honest even if I wasn't concerned about the ethnics of it, I wouldn't attempt this just because I'd be afraid that if I did it more than once or twice eBay would notice something was fishy and I'd get in trouble. But maybe I'm naive.

[powell-memorabilia]

Nothing wrong with putting in an INR a day after the original expected delivery date.  If there is movement in the tracking, eBay will keep the case open, but there is a limit on the number of extensions.  

I think that you made a mistake in telling the buyer to file a claim - that would be your responsibility.

[stephenjf510]

Good to know. In the past when something I purchased has been delayed I have waited a few days to do anything at all and then started with opening a lost mail search/claim with USPS. I wouldn't have thought to do INR unless I was absolutely sure it was lost in the mail, since it wouldn't seem fair to put the seller in a situation where they may have to pay just because USPS was delayed. 

I'm pretty sure in those situations when I've notified the seller they've told me to file with USPS, so I thought that was standard practice.