eBay

repollo.marrero · ‎07-20-2019

Hi, new seller here, obviously...

As I write this I've come to realize that much of the scams in eBay are buyer related side, I mean, I've seen a lot of eBay sellers trying to sell sketchy no-brand, pirated, items, but this one I just learned right now and is one of the worst ones. Since you keep getting reminded that you've been scammed through the whole process...

So a couple weeks back I told a friend of mine that he should really sell his damaged phone through eBay since prices were more appealing for the iPhone XS max 256 GB, however much to my surprise I was in for a ride.

I provided all the information for the listing, me and my girlfriend actually started taking pictures of the phone trying to provide all the issues with the phone. We listed the phone with a week of auctioning, thinking this was going to be the wisest decision. On July 8, an ebayer wins the bid, in the process of the bidding ending, around three different eBay "buyers" send me a message stating that they won the item and were preparing to send the money or that they already sent it, even though none of theses "buyers" actually "bidded" on the auction process. Additionally 5 minutes go by and the auction winner asks me to cancel the order, obviously he hasn't paid so I ask the buyer nicely not to bid again if the buyer is not willing to complete the order, I cancel the order. Item re-listed, another week goes by and around 4-6 messages are received of "buyer" scams, I ignore them. Once the auction ends I see the amount and I'm grateful for the amount that it got sold for, $527. Me and my girlfriend start packaging the item nicely, trying to be diligent to get the item in order so that it can get to the buyer as soon as possible. Package delivered in a timely manner, when it appears that the buyer received it July 19th 2019 at around 12:29 PM PDT, however, I get a message at around 4:45 PM PDT from the winning buyer that received his item a couple hours back.

He wants to return the item...

In the return message the buyer provides some photos which aren't the phone I sent. I sent an iPhone XS Max 256Gb Space Gray, he sends me photos of an iPhone XS Max Gold... At this point I already know it's a scam so I start trying to find as much information to see how I can prepare to defend myself. After reading up for the first 2 minutes I just realize I have nothing I can do but wait and see how this buyer rips me from the phone while I'm left with nothing... I found that someone suggests that I can take video while packaging the item, too late now.

While looking at the photos the buyer provided I realize that the box he shows in the picture is the original box that I sent with the phone since you can still read the IMEI number from the box, although there is a gold iPhone by the side.

After a brief moment and re-reading the messages I realize I just lost my friends phone trying to "help", and I decide to call eBay so that they can give me the bad news themselves and to make a decision. As the eBay representative stated if the buyer is claiming that's what it came out from the box then I should start the return process, but to hold for the refund. I try to ask the representative what options will I have when I open the box and realize for a fact that the item is not the one I sent? He states he can't provide me with options/opinions since that still hasn't happened, and that once I receive the "item" back, that I can appeal the decision. However after digging-up information on this types of situations I only found that eBay always sides with the buyer. So this has come to be a slow and painful fraudulent process which I need to be reminded every time I need to deal with this.

I don't understand how or why eBay let this types of situations happen with eBay buyers, I feel sick to the stomach since I need to pay my friend for the phone one way or another, I've been thinking about not letting him know what happened to the phone and loose the money but that idea just makes me angrier about the buyer.

Additionally I wanted to open the conversation to prevent this types of situations happen again, since I'm really anxious because I shipped a MacBook Pro 15" today and I have another iPhone XS Max 256Gb for sale on a auction listing.

I was thinking I should iCloud lock the phones until the items arrive forcing the buyer to send me a message requesting to unlock the device, would this be a viable option for mobile device eBay sellers? What do you think?

tunicaslot · ‎07-20-2019

This post will at least be edited if not removed due to the information you released. We're not allowed to do that. What I will say is selling any electronics, phones and high priced watches or jewelry is something no one with low feedback should do. Scammers are thrilled when they see people with less than 1,000 feedback for selling have listings for these items and know most are easy prey because they don't have experience with dealing with scammers.

Even those with experience have a hard time with the way buyer protection works here and most of use will not sell those types of items on the venue but use something local where we get cash in hand and all sales final. You've sold a few high priced items - I wish you luck and hope that they are honest buyers.

By the way - love your avatar!

fashunu4eeuh · ‎07-20-2019

Hey Rey, very sorry to read this. Not sure where to start, so here goes:

There is no such thing as no returns on eBay. The reality is that any buyer can force any seller into a refund by opening the Not As Described case. (This is why i offer returns, to avoid fraudulent cases being opened.)

Selling online is fraught with risk. Ebay has the Money Back Guarantee to look out for the buyers' interests. Sellers have a few protections here, but for the most part, are on their own. If I were you, I would sell that expensive iPhone locally for cash. If you are determined to sell it here, then list it as Fixed Price with Immediate Payment Required. This will protect you from some of the scam attempts.

"...At this point I already know it's a scam.." Your buyer claims that a different phone arrived. Rather than get into a heated debate with them, you are better off simply taking their word for it initially and go from there. When they stated the problem, your first act should have been to file a tampered mail report with the post office. This does a couple of things--it puts the buyer on notice that their name will be given to the authorities, it shows a good faith effort in the event the buyer is telling the truth, and it supports your claim that you sent the correct item.

Sadly, at this point, you don't have many options. Ebay has ruled in the buyer's favor and you agreed to abide by their rulings in cases like this. Did you have shipping insurance on your package? I'm not well versed on the ends and outs, but i do know "missing contents" is covered. If you had it, you can file the claim online. Also, you could make a last ditch effort in the form of an appeal. After the refund, you can appeal eBay's decision to find for the buyer. You have 30 days in which to gather your evidence to present to eBay. It's a small chance to overturn their ruling, but still a chance.

Final thought: video taping your shipping activities is a fruitless undertaking. Video can be doctored same as photos so eBay does not accept video recordings as proof of anything.

gracieallen01 · ‎07-20-2019

.... "I don't understand how or why eBay let this types of situations happen with eBay buyers, I feel sick to the stomach since I need to pay my friend for the phone one way or another, I've been thinking about not letting him know what happened to the phone and loose the money but that idea just makes me angrier about the buyer.

Additionally I wanted to open the conversation to prevent this types of situations happen again, since I'm really anxious because I shipped a MacBook Pro 15" today and I have another iPhone XS Max 256Gb for sale on a auction listing." ....

ebay has their return policies and, in listing on the platform, you have agreed to them. ebay doesn't have any money on the table and wants - and needs - all the buyers they can get. If you get ripped off and quit ebay, there is someone to take your place waiting in the wings.

My recommendation would be to recall the MacBook, take that and the other phone and sell them locally - these are 'must have' items that everybody 'needs' but nobody wants to pay for. Anything you get for them will be more than what you are likely to loose selling them on ebay. AND, remember, don't sell or list anything that you can't afford to pay the buyer to take, along with shipping and fees.

There are things you can try to, possibly, recoup your loss on the phone, but it includes getting a police report of the theft, filing a mail fraud report with the postal inspectors and filing an IC3 report. When you have all that paperwork, you can try an appeal with ebay and perhaps get a courtesy refund. Were it me, I would 'brick' the 1st phone.

As you have begun to discover, being a new seller, you have a target painted on your back big enough to be seen from space, by every blind scammer in the world - and they have more tricks than you have even begun to consider.

Not saying 'NO' doesn't mean 'YES'.

The foolishness of one's actions or words is determined by the number of witnesses.

Perhaps if Brains were described as an APP, many people would use them more often.

Respect, like money, is only of 'worth' when it is earned - with all due respect, it can not be ordained, legislated or coerced. Anonymous

toyshnip · ‎07-20-2019

Maybe next time you can post the serial number of the device?

You pun in the listing the serial number or any other unique identification with a photo showing that what you are selling is that number.
This can prove that the item you got back is not the item that you posted on the listing.

The only issue is that there is no way to prove when the switch was made. The buyer will claim the switch was when the seller packed the item. The seller will claim that the buyer did the switch.
However, it will show buyers that the seller is trying to gather as much information to avoid scams.

repollo.marrero · ‎07-20-2019

So right now the buyer is asking me for another shipping label from the one I already sent him? Is this for real?

sabya-78 · ‎07-20-2019

Stop communicating. If he doesn't use the label within the allotted time, you can get the case closed in your favor.

however be aware that buyers have a hundred eighty days to file a case with PayPal and an equal amount of time to file with your credit card company

repollo.marrero · ‎07-20-2019

Thanks for the suggestion, I haven't contacted the buyer since I wanted to call Ebay first.

lovett-1000 · ‎07-20-2019

If you have already gave them a shipping label do not give another. If the buyer dose not use the label you gave them. Then no tracking back to you will be provided. E bay will rule in your favor. You will get the money for the sale anyway if they do not return with label you provided. Or buy another label with their own money they must provide tracking and the original item you sent.

repollo.marrero · ‎07-20-2019

Thanks for all your comments:

@tunicaslot I understand, but out of frustration this is the least I could, although I already filed a complaint with the IC3. Additionally how would you suggests members to get higher feedback if not by becoming a seller? Thanks for the compliments, actually a Scottish terrier lives with me which looks exactly like Fala (most popular presidential dog).

@fashunu4eeuh Even though I made a huge rant I would like to open the conversation up to Ebay directly, to start speaking up of the situations that this platform has issues and deficiencies with. I understand that not a lot of people may like the way I approach this, however, while this situation is happening to me, is happening to a lot of other people as well, which in their minds they thought they could do some extra money, or even a living trying to use this platform and instead are faced with the negligence of Ebay buyer protection policies. I mean is a good thing that buyers are protected obviously, however what I'm seeing is a trend where the sellers always carries the baggage of the whole Ebay system and there are the least processes, policies or options from Ebay to help the members which actually provide revenues to Ebay.
Additionally for the suggestions, I'll be practicing one if not all of those next time, I really appreciate it!

@gracieallen01 Thanks for the suggestions, I already completed the IC3, the USPIS, and am as well looking for the closest police station to report him in his state and city.
About the target, I didn't realize how bad Ebay sellers had it with all the **bleep** Ebay is letting go through, is not even funny. There needs to be better ways, mechanisms and options to manage and resolve all this types of situations, additionally at the very least REALLY BLUNT STATEMENTS from Ebay letting a new seller know how bad the risks are.

@toyshnip This is the exact situation I'm in right now, even though I provided photo evidence of the ESN and IMEI, how will I be able to proof I sent that same very number. I already know I lost here, that is not the issue now. The issue now is seeing what Ebay is gonna do about this types of situations, and additionally how will Ebay and more so I are going to prevent this from ever happening again. What do you guys think about iCloud locking the device before shipping them?
I feel this can bring bad feedback however until Ebay doesn't find a better way, I can't see another logical and efficient way...

and last but not least @sabya-78 thanks...

DISCLAIMER: All the expressions made on this and other posts under my name are my sole and personal opinion as a new Ebay seller, it does not represent Ebay nor any other entity whatsoever. BE ADVISED.

pburn · ‎07-20-2019

@repollo.marrero wrote:
DISCLAIMER: All the expressions made on this and other posts under my name are my sole and personal opinion as a new Ebay seller, it does not represent Ebay nor any other entity whatsoever. BE ADVISED.

Just curious . . . what's that about?

tunicaslot · ‎07-20-2019

@repollo.marrero wrote:
Thanks for all your comments:

@tunicaslotI understand, but out of frustration this is the least I could, although I already filed a complaint with the IC3. Additionally how would you suggests members to get higher feedback if not by becoming a seller? Thanks for the compliments, actually a Scottish terrier lives with me which looks exactly like Fala (most popular presidential dog).

@fashunu4eeuhEven though I made a huge rant I would like to open the conversation up to Ebay directly, to start speaking up of the situations that this platform has issues and deficiencies with. I understand that not a lot of people may like the way I approach this, however, while this situation is happening to me, is happening to a lot of other people as well, which in their minds they thought they could do some extra money, or even a living trying to use this platform and instead are faced with the negligence of Ebay buyer protection policies. I mean is a good thing that buyers are protected obviously, however what I'm seeing is a trend where the sellers always carries the baggage of the whole Ebay system and there are the least processes, policies or options from Ebay to help the members which actually provide revenues to Ebay.
Additionally for the suggestions, I'll be practicing one if not all of those next time, I really appreciate it!

@gracieallen01Thanks for the suggestions, I already completed the IC3, the USPIS, and am as well looking for the closest police station to report him in his state and city.
About the target, I didn't realize how bad Ebay sellers had it with all the **bleep** Ebay is letting go through, is not even funny. There needs to be better ways, mechanisms and options to manage and resolve all this types of situations, additionally at the very least REALLY BLUNT STATEMENTS from Ebay letting a new seller know how bad the risks are.

@toyshnipThis is the exact situation I'm in right now, even though I provided photo evidence of the ESN and IMEI, how will I be able to proof I sent that same very number. I already know I lost here, that is not the issue now. The issue now is seeing what Ebay is gonna do about this types of situations, and additionally how will Ebay and more so I are going to prevent this from ever happening again. What do you guys think about iCloud locking the device before shipping them?
I feel this can bring bad feedback however until Ebay doesn't find a better way, I can't see another logical and efficient way...

and last but not least @sabya-78 thanks...

DISCLAIMER: All the expressions made on this and other posts under my name are my sole and personal opinion as a new Ebay seller, it does not represent Ebay nor any other entity whatsoever. BE ADVISED.

It's tough as so many buyers don't give feedback any longer - but usually we suggest either getting low dollar inventory to try and up your feedback or sell smaller priced item you no longer use around the house.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from selling here but new or low feedback buyers have to be careful. We had a seller last week - fairly new that sold a Rolex and got scammed. Camera lens are also a big scam item - we see a couple of those a month. The best was a seller who sold a machine weighing hundreds of pounds a couple of years back. It was so big - weighing hundreds of lbs and shipped on pallets. The buyer req a return and returned a box of bricks. Until one of our community blues became involved - Ebay would do nothing despite the seller have the shipped weight of the original item and the weight of the box of bricks he received back which didn't weigh a 10th of the original shipped item.

Back in April 2018 - Ebay decided that CS could no longer mediate returns and make decisions as to who was in the right - not that it wasn't tough before then to win against these scammers but it's near impossible now and sellers are lucky to get their return ship cost back. We are supposed to get better seller protections - this was announced in the Spring Seller Update but we haven't heard anything yet. We are told to report the buyer to Ebay - but as of now - Ebay will not take action until the buyer has a "history" of abuse. We have no idea how many sellers have to be scammed before the buyer has a history - hopefully we will get more clarification but they've informed us that summer isn't official over until the 3rd week of Sept - so we just sit and wait.

patd3283 · ‎07-20-2019

In the past, we bricked all phones we shipped (not a whole lot) until the buyer acknowleged that the same phone was received by providing the MIEI number. We didn't have any stolen.

Patd