Buyer scammed me out of $160, made up false information, and recieved no return.

[reecle_4]

While writing this I am **bleep**, I am angry, and I never want to sell on ebay again. It is a shame I cannot call them as it is 10PM but I am completely unsure what to do.

I sold a few used graphics cards. One of the buyers immediately opened a refund request after I had shipped an item. They said they did not receive it. I told them the shipment will arrive soon and provided the tracking number again. I asked him to please close the request. He declined to close the request.

The buyer received the graphics card on Dec 22nd. He immediately went back to the request and gave a full speech on how he is a certified technician deeming that my graphics card tested to prior shipment was defective and wanted a refund. He told me I packaged it incorrectly with non anti-static bubble wrap.

I was using anti-static bubble wrap. I asked him what was wrong, and offered to help via teamviewer as it will probably a easy fix. He told me there were artifacts everywhere and wanted a refund immediately. I offered support once again, and wanted photos of the artifacts. He could not provided photos and declined all support. He then sent a photo of the AMD driver software failing to install. This is a common issue if you do not uninstall your old graphics driver.

So the card is working I said, there is not issue - you just have a drive problem. It was fixed. I sent him instructions.

He then demanded a $50 refund. He wanted $50 or he was going to give me negative feedback. I said no, it is in working condition. His case was closed by ebay.

A day later he opened another request saying my title was wrong - it was not. I had in the title 4GB as the model, on the photo, and in the description in bold. He was trying to get a $50 refund and claiming my listing was all wrong. It was not - it was  correct. Ebay closed his second  case.

He continued to threaten me saying he would get a full refund, and would not ship the graphics card back. Guess what? Ebay said they would give him a shipping label then he will ship it back and he will be given a refund. I said sure. No problem have this dude send this back I don't want to deal with some guy trying to scam me out of my money.

The next day the case was closed, and elevated into a REFUND CASE. The buyer was sent A FULL REFUND OF $160 AND DOES NOT HAVE TO SEND THE GRAPHICS CARD BACK.

I am now out of $160 because this dude made up a bunch of false accusations. I was on the phone with ebay 3 - 5 different times trying to solve this. HOW CAN THEY REFUND A BUYER WITHOUT THE BUYER SHIPPING MY ITEM BACK REGARDLESS? THIS IS A SCAM.

I cannot express how angry I am - how this guy was able to get all his money back and now my working graphics card. I am at the point of going to the police if ebay is unable to solve this for me.

tl;dr

> buyer opens case claiming didnt recieve

> buyer recieves item

> buyer claims it is defective

> buyer does not want to ship it back

> buyer wants a refund of $50

> buyer cannot provide proof of it being defective

> buyers case closed

> buyers case opened again claiming listing was wrong

> buyer threatens me with neg feedback and getting a full refund

if I do not refund him $50

> ebay sent shipping label

> buyer appeals

> buyer gets immediate refund of $160

> buyer keeps the item

> the item is working. I am angry

[reecle_4]

I also just appealed the case and was declined just now. What the **bleep**?

[vintagecraze50]

At some point during this process with the purchase, even in this case, which involved feedback extortion, it was probably a wise decision to just agree to have the buyer return the item. At some point the resistance to refund turned into a decision by Ebay to allow the buyer to keep the item since you were refusing to allow them to return it. You probably now have have an unresolved case strike on your account. If a buyer is that adamant about wanting to return something, it is best to let that process happen.

[reecle_4]

I actually declined to refund them any amount, and offered for them to ship it back. I went through the process for them to ship the item back and have ebay send them a label.

I wanted the item back at that point just not refund the buyer any amount.

The buyer declined the return somehow ?? and then made it a refund case.

[fashunu4eeuh]

I wish you had waited to appeal and had come here first for guidance. While it may be getting harder to get a reversed decision, there are still some things you might have done to sway the outcome, possibly. Or at least get a courtesy refund from eBay for allowing the buyer to keep the item.

Part of the issue here may have been how the case was handled. By refusing the return in a Not As Described case, both the money and the item were ultimately lost and the seller was likely given a defect for ‘case closed without seller resolution’.  I’m afraid that by not knowing how the Money Back Guarantee works, you were left vulnerable and at the mercy of the buyer who appeared well versed in it. (But by posting your experience here today, you are likely sparing other eBayers the same fate.)

On eBay, No Returns does not mean No Refunds. Ebay’s buyer guarantee policy trumps a seller’s terms. And as you discovered, the buyer can and will prevail even if there is evidence that the he is gaming the system. That is because it is eBay’s job to protect buyer interests from unscrupulous sellers, but there is relatively little protection for sellers who encounter unscrupulous buyers. New or inexperienced eBayers selling expensive items sometimes get targeted by the undesirable element. 

Sellers must guard their own interests, and one way to do that is to know the platform’s rules and policies before listing. Which is no comfort to you now, but i mention it because, as i said, others will learn how to avoid the same experience, thanks to your post.

Very sorry you had to endure the trial by fire. I hope you won’t let it stop you from selling here in the future. To arm yourself in that effort, below are links to some of the policies sellers need to know. Wishing you much smoother sailing ahead and good luck.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/selling-policies?id=4214

[reecle_4]

Thanks a lot for the reply. I am not ok with this at all and this would be fraud anywhere else.

Unless this is resolved I won't be selling here again, but thanks again for the reply I'll look into the articles.

[medusa_pewter]

I'd file the police report.

[dhbookds]

All this was done IN the case or was the correspondence done either in ebay messages or private email?  I presume you asked ebay why they refunded without requiring the product sent back......  What did they say?

---

@reecle_4 wrote:

While writing this I am **bleep**, I am angry, and I never want to sell on ebay again. It is a shame I cannot call them as it is 10PM but I am completely unsure what to do.

I sold a few used graphics cards. One of the buyers immediately opened a refund request after I had shipped an item. They said they did not receive it. I told them the shipment will arrive soon and provided the tracking number again. I asked him to please close the request. He declined to close the request.

The buyer received the graphics card on Dec 22nd. He immediately went back to the request and gave a full speech on how he is a certified technician deeming that my graphics card tested to prior shipment was defective and wanted a refund. He told me I packaged it incorrectly with non anti-static bubble wrap.

I was using anti-static bubble wrap. I asked him what was wrong, and offered to help via teamviewer as it will probably a easy fix. He told me there were artifacts everywhere and wanted a refund immediately. I offered support once again, and wanted photos of the artifacts. He could not provided photos and declined all support. He then sent a photo of the AMD driver software failing to install. This is a common issue if you do not uninstall your old graphics driver.

So the card is working I said, there is not issue - you just have a drive problem. It was fixed. I sent him instructions.

He then demanded a $50 refund. He wanted $50 or he was going to give me negative feedback. I said no, it is in working condition. His case was closed by ebay.

A day later he opened another request saying my title was wrong - it was not. I had in the title 4GB as the model, on the photo, and in the description in bold. He was trying to get a $50 refund and claiming my listing was all wrong. It was not - it was  correct. Ebay closed his second  case.

He continued to threaten me saying he would get a full refund, and would not ship the graphics card back. Guess what? Ebay said they would give him a shipping label then he will ship it back and he will be given a refund. I said sure. No problem have this dude send this back I don't want to deal with some guy trying to scam me out of my money.

The next day the case was closed, and elevated into a REFUND CASE. The buyer was sent A FULL REFUND OF $160 AND DOES NOT HAVE TO SEND THE GRAPHICS CARD BACK.

I am now out of $160 because this dude made up a bunch of false accusations. I was on the phone with ebay 3 - 5 different times trying to solve this. HOW CAN THEY REFUND A BUYER WITHOUT THE BUYER SHIPPING MY ITEM BACK REGARDLESS? THIS IS A SCAM.

I cannot express how angry I am - how this guy was able to get all his money back and now my working graphics card. I am at the point of going to the police if ebay is unable to solve this for me.

tl;dr

> buyer opens case claiming didnt recieve

> buyer recieves item

> buyer claims it is defective

> buyer does not want to ship it back

> buyer wants a refund of $50

> buyer cannot provide proof of it being defective

> buyers case closed

> buyers case opened again claiming listing was wrong

> buyer threatens me with neg feedback and getting a full refund

if I do not refund him $50

> ebay sent shipping label

> buyer appeals

> buyer gets immediate refund of $160

> buyer keeps the item

> the item is working. I am angry

---

[reecle_4]

All of this was done in the case. (Him stating he will get a full refund if I do not refund him $50 is in the private messages) but everything else was in the case.

I have not contacted ebay yet other than the appeal, but I am staying up until 5am so I can give them a call right away. 1 more hour to go.

[rainbowcolorz]

@reecle_4 asked:   HOW CAN THEY REFUND A BUYER WITHOUT THE BUYER SHIPPING MY ITEM BACK REGARDLESS? 

***********************

It happens occasionally. 

I read about it happening to someone right here on the message board back in May of 2017. 

Seller said she listed a pair of MEN'S DICKIES WK SHORTS CHARCOAL GRAY NWT.  

Looking at her sold items I could see she did make the sale. 

She said the buyer who purchased it said there was a rip on one of the pockets (or something similar to those words).   

I believe the seller said to return for a full refund but the buyer apparently wanted a big partial refund and to keep the Dickies.   Seller said she responded and said they were NWT and the pocket she was claiming had the rip was actually pictured in the photos and there was no rip.   They were in perfect condition NWT when she shipped it.  

Buyer opened up a return and lied to eBay.

Seller said eBay sided with buyer and said buyer could keep the item and then buyer got all her $ back.

Then the buyer went ahead and listed the Dickies using the seller's original photos and stated the Dickies were in excellent condition, no rips.  

I saw the re-listed item as the thief-buyer-seller used the exact words in her listing title as the original seller did. 

The original seller said she contacted eBay and pointed them to the thief's listing but eBay would not help.

I don't know if the original seller knew how to appeal the decision, but she was out her merchandise and her $.  

I felt very bad for her, as I do for you.  

[dhbookds]

If you ok'd a return in the case, ebay should have sent a label (from you), if buyer didn't use it.......the case should have been found in yr favor.......as far as I can see.

If the phone call doesn't work, try contacting ebay thru Ebay for Business page..... just say give general problem, omitting scam, etc references.  Usually an ebay employee will contact you by email for more info..........

[reecle_4]

Hi guys,

I have contacted ebay. They told me there is nothing they can do. They moved me to paypal to open a resolution which they can't since it is ebay. Paypal contacted the buyer for return shipping and recommended I file a complaint on ic3.gov.

Going to call ebay once again just to be sure. Does not look good.

[lintbrush*]

When the buyer filed the Item Not Received, and it eventually showed delivered, that's why it was closed in your favor.  The messages that he received it and it wasn't correct that were in that INR process are not the same as filing a SNAD and have no bearing on the outcome as "delivery" is the only thing that counts.

The buyer then opened a SNAD, and from what I'm reading, you didn't actually approve it.  When you don't resolve it on your own within 3 business, and eBay is asked to step in, it rarely bodes well for you.   

For the record, the buyer doesn't have to "prove" anything to you.  They said SNAD - eBay goes on that.

These processes are Money Back Guarantee claims, and are different than regular returns.  In some instances where the seller will not resolve and/or provide return shipping on their own, eBay will refund without requiring a return.   Sometimes eBay will force the shipping label and return before they do so, but not always.

[threshold.sales.group]

Good grief. OP, so sorry you got put through this. 

So buyer attempts to file a false INR claim - loses

So buyer attempts blantnet feedback extortion trying to scam a $50 partial refund (as if a $50 partial will make a "defective" card suddenly function) - all in eBay messages  

So buyer opens first SNAD case - loses

So buyer opens a second SNAD case - you accept the return and agree to have ebay provide return label

eBay C-S refunds the buyer without requiring a return - even though you approved the return and authorized a return label

eBay C-S  then recommends that you contact PayPal? What the *heck*??

[myangelandmyprincess]

---

@threshold.sales.group wrote:

Good grief. OP, so sorry you got put through this. 

So buyer attempts to file a false INR claim - loses

So buyer attempts blantnet feedback extortion trying to scam a $50 partial refund (as if a $50 partial will make a "defective" card suddenly function) - all in eBay messages  

So buyer opens first SNAD case - loses

So buyer opens a second SNAD case - you accept the return and agree to have ebay provide return label

eBay C-S refunds the buyer without requiring a return - even though you approved the return and authorized a return label

eBay C-S  then recommends that you contact PayPal? What the *heck*??

---

That can't be correct once you close or lose a snad you can't open a second one