Buyer return lost in shipping

[craigsdieselrepair]

I have a problem. A buyer purchased a CAT ECM for $850.00 on June 27. The day he received the package, he opened a not as described case. I knew the reasoning was a lie, because I had this ECM tested by CAT dealer MHC Kenworth before listing the ECM. I have paperwork from MHC showing the ECM was in good working order. 

This does not matter as the buyer returned the item of course. Problem is, I have not received the item back, it's showing that it's been sitting in transit for 7 days now. Since I have not received the item, I have not refunded the buyer. eBay just now sends me an email that says this:

We've asked the buyer to send the item

Hi *********,

***** indicated that they posted their return. The item should now be delivered and once you've received it, please issue the buyer with a refund by Jul 17, 2023.

Once you refund the buyer, we'll credit eligible fees to you as per our  fee credit policy (link taken out)

If the item hasn't arrived yet, the buyer may not be returning it. if you like, you can contact buyer (link taken out). If you can't reach a resolution, you can ask us to step in and help (note- this was a link but I had to take it out) When I click on the return page, it's showing at the top of the page that the item HAS been delivered, and that I have until the 17th to refund the buyer,  when the package has NOT been delivered, and tracking clearly shows that the package has NOT been delivered! So all I can figure is the buyer has called eBay and some rep has manually entered delivered even though tracking shows clearly the package is not delivered. It has signature confirmation even, it's not been delivered!  What should I do? I can't refund $850 when I haven't even received the package back! eBay chose the shipping company for the return... They gave the buyer the label, they chose FedEx. I initially shipped via USPS. I wouldn't have chosen FedEx had I chosen the carrier for the buyer. eBay rules are usually whoever chooses the carrier is responsible, in this case eBay chose the carrier. And surely to god they insured the package for something so expensive!

[craigsdieselrepair]

I haven't paid for the label yet since they only charge me once the package is delivered and refund initiated. 

[craigsdieselrepair]

What do you guys think I should do? Should I contact eBay by phone or should I use the 'let eBay step in' button on the return page? Does anyone know the current rules concerning lost packages that are returned items? 

[ladyindecadence]

Ebay considers whoever was at fault for the return responsible for getting the item back to you. In the case of a return opened for a not as described reason, The buyer is only responsible for actually getting the item into the hands of the carrier, after that all liability is on the seller.  If the return was opened for a buyers remorse reason the buyer would be responsible for getting the item back to you safely. So with your case being a not as described return ebay will side with the buyer. Sadly the return label provided by ebay will not include any insurance. The best way to avoid this situation in the future is to require all returns to have an RMA number they pause the return process and doesn't let ebay automatically provide a return label. This gives you the option to then provide your own return label using a carrier of your choosing and give you the ability to purchase shipping insurance on the package.

If you ask ebay to step in you are going to get a defect on your account and they will force a full refund and will not refund you the final value fee for the transaction.

[craigsdieselrepair]

 I don't see how this could be the case when they now allow sellers to deduct percentage from the refund if the buyer sends back a damaged item. How can you even know if they sent back a box of rocks if you don't receive the item? Every single rule on returns says to refund once you receive the return. I know that back when sellers sent labels to the buyer that this was how it was (that the seller was responsible) but now that eBay has taken over returns I don't see how they can expect a seller to lose their item and money when the seller has no say at all in the return process. The seller doesn't choose the carrier, you can't add insurance, etc. So I think surely this has all changed once eBay took over the return process.

I plan on calling tomorrow and see what they say. I'll report back. It would be ludicrous to expect the seller to refund when they haven't received their item back.

[craigsdieselrepair]

I've searched through eBay rules and can't find a clear answer. All of the rules say you refund once the item is delivered. It says nothing at all about forcing a refund if the item isn't delivered. It says nothing at all that if the item is lost during transit, that the seller still has to refund. They added signature confirmation on the return. Why would they even add signature confirmation, something that I would be charged for once the item is returned, if they don't honor the rules and force a refund even though the seller didn't receive the item back? What would even be the point of paying for signature confirmation? If all the buyer has to do is drop off the package with the carrier and seller has to refund no matter what, even if the package gets lost, then why even wait until you receive the package before you have to refund? 

Yes, back when the seller purchased the return labels and sent them to the buyer, it was on the seller since the seller chose the carrier and could have added insurance if they wanted to make sure they were protected if the package got lost during transit- but this is no longer the case. eBay took over the entire return process. Seller doesn't choose the carrier, can't add insurance, doesn't send the label, and isn't even charged unless they receive the item back and refund.  I'm almost positive that no one would accept returns on expensive items, or even sell expensive items if they thought this could happen. 

[craigsdieselrepair]

I know it's been awhile since I posted the original post, but I wanted to update everyone on what ended happening with this issue so that you will know how eBay handled this (I couldn't find the post!) 

The package stayed stuck in transit and didn't move. I contacted eBay and they said to wait until a certain date and they would then handle the issue. She said not to worry about the page showing that it had been delivered, they knew the tracking was showing the package hadn't been delivered. 

Once the date came, I contacted eBay through chat, and they ended up refunding the buyer, so I didn't have to refund the buyer out of my pocket. The rep said that since eBay chose the carrier, that they were responsible for the refund. They refunded the buyer in full and stated that they would remove any feedback or defects if needed (the buyer never left feedback so it wasn't an issue). 

I was very satisfied with the outcome of the issue. And I was happy that eBay handled it in the way they did. It was fair for me and the buyer IMO. 

If anyone would like to see the transcript of what the eBay rep said concerning this issue, I'd be more than happy to share so that in the future everyone knows how this type of issue is now handled by eBay. 

I appreciate all of the replies, thanks to everyone here! 

[4pawsup*]

Glad it worked out for you.

[craigsdieselrepair]

Thank you! 

[gurlcat]

I just found this post because I'm having the same issue -well similar enough.  There's no signature required as it's a much less-valuable item ($150) and instead of being stuck in another town, the package actually got as far as "Out for delivery."  That was just today so I'm not truly worried yet, but it definitely made me curious about how eBay handles such a situation. 

Like you, this return label was the one eBay provided to the buyer.  I started a thread about it, and so far the only replies are one person speculating that eBay would probably do a courtesy refund to the buyer w/o charging me (as happened with yours) but someone else replied that the responsibility comes down to the SELLER, when an eBay label is used.  They even posted a screenshot of what looks like an eBay employee reply to a post -that's what got me looking for it in the forums, but found your post first. 

I find that ludicrous if they ever do handle it that way, because what if the buyer's printer messed up the label, or they slapped it on all creas-y, or it got wet, or anything else that could impede final delivery to the seller's address .... and theoretically a buyer familiar with the policy could do something like that on purpose.  

I'm starting to get the sense that this is something not stated anywhere in the Help pages, something that eBay employees handle at their own discretion, which should never be the case for anything involving people's money like this.   So if you see this before a mod closes it down for being an old thread, and if you still have that transcript, I would really love to see it.  Thank you in advance.