eBay

dominicesposit0 · ‎07-14-2017

The buyer opened up the video game system saying it wasn't modded which was not said in any of the description. He reported it in his refund message that he opened up the system to check if its modded when it wasn't. Ebay won't side with me and told me to contact the buyer to make him cancel the refund

dominicesposit0 · ‎07-19-2017

I gotta call ebay because it's at the time where ebay steps in

omgitlightsup · ‎07-20-2017

This is a confusing case.

The fact is, this is a modified console. You had it modified when you removed SCEA's original components and replaced them. You also, technically, tampered with it; you have no evidence to suggest that what the buyer did constitutes tampering, because all he admitted to was opening the case. You admitted to full-on electrical rework.

It's not "modded" in that it wasn't hacked to play out-of-region or copied games, and that's what I'm sure the buyer meant.. but he can't fault you for providing something that was as described. And eBay can't interpret his language to mean anything at all, so they probaby won't.

No legitimate manufacturer refurbishes GG's today. A million illegitimate ones do. IMO the buyer was being prudent by opening the case, because you will not believe what kind of abuse is committed to vintage gaming hardware under the banner of "refurbishment."

The only issue at play here is the alleged scratches. Your original listing included only a single photo that shows no scratches, and a video of another GG that isn't the one being sold. You should have taken some photos with the unit off and a good light source, like a tent.

If I were you, I would do everything possible to get that unit back in its current condition, and try to re-sell it with a more representative listing. Or make that buyer happy and agree on a fair price.

Your argument about tampering and opening the case is just getting sidetracked and it probably won't stop eBay from siding with the buyer. In fact, it could be perceived as diversionary, because the scratches are still there.

I open up and inspect every single piece of electronics and game hardware I buy used, because there could be battery residue, liquid spills, or poorly-executed "repairs" like cap replacements that will lead to problems later. Of course, I usually do this after agreeing with the seller that the transaction is over; but WRT to voiding the warranty and tampering, you admitted in the product listing that the unit was no longer a sealed factory one.

deep-garnet-red · ‎07-20-2017

It's not unethical to inspect a product.

omgitlightsup · ‎07-20-2017

@deep-garnet-red wrote:
It's not unethical to inspect a product.

no, not at all.

I don't think ethics are really an issue here. You were up-front about the repairs, and he was up-front about opening it. His return excuse was scratches. I can't see any scratches in the photo. If they are there, he will probably get his refund. That's why I say you should accept it if he wants a refund.

ooak-tammy · ‎07-21-2017

@dominicesposit0 wrote:
The video game housing was opened. Just like if you opened up a cell phone without sending it to the manufacturer for repair it voids said warranty. There's no warranty for a 22 year old system that just opening it up to check if it's modded when it wasn't listed as that. Is unethical

Not true about the cell phone. I just bought a new smartphone and the instructions had me open the phone up and place the battery into it. That didn't void the warrenty. As for opening the game, it's not unethical! It's smart to remove the casing and check the inside to make sure there isn't any debris that may cause a fire when you plug it in.

theheadphonecompany · ‎07-21-2017

Moded systems, items that help you mod consols, devices that help you pirate games etc are NOT allowed on eBay (piracy is a crime).

SInce your listing didnt say MODED and the item wasnt - you simply need to call eBay and discuss it with them.

Of course if you take returns on eBay (lord help us all), then you basically agree to take back ANYTHING in ANY condition - so says eBay blues and CS agents, despite eBays help pages that say the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Call eBay, ask for stupidvisior, I mean SUPERvisor and get them to help you.

Anonymous · ‎07-21-2017

Lemme just see if I've got all the facts...

The items specifics state the item is used and has minor cosmetic wear - check

The pictures of the item show there is minor cosmetic wear - check

The buyer has disassembled (as in taken it apart) the unit to check to see if it is "modded" - check

Modding is a modification after market that allows users to pirate games - check

The item has a no returns policy - check

The OP should be able to get this SNAD closed down in their favor once these details are spelled out to any CSR with adequate grasp of the English language for several reasons

The item was described properly

The item has been tampered with and is no longer in the same condition it was sent in

The buyer is asking for things not included in the listing

The item has a no returns policy

Here is a thread that every seller should read regarding claims of SNAD and a no returns policy. Pay particular attentions to the statements of the eBay representative that weighed in on the thread:

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping-Returns/Well-here-we-go-again-another-SNAD-claim-Is-there-no-e...

This should be a slam dunk win for the OP. BTW, I think the easiest part of the win is to make the CSR realize that by "opening" the machine, this means disassembling it.

ooak-tammy · ‎07-21-2017

You don't disassemble a game system by opening it up. Disassembly is taking parts out of it, not just unscrewing the screws and checking what's beneath the hood, so to speak.
Do you consider having a battery put into a watch "disassembly" ? Of course not and this is the same thing. The game system was designed to be opened up.

Anonymous · ‎07-21-2017

@ooak-tammy wrote:
You don't disassemble a game system by opening it up. Disassembly is taking parts out of it, not just unscrewing the screws and checking what's beneath the hood, so to speak.
Do you consider having a battery put into a watch "disassembly" ? Of course not and this is the same thing. The game system was designed to be opened up.

@ooak-tammy

Last I checked, a watch doesn't have screws on it that have to be removed to get to the battery. If you have to use tools to check what's beneath the hood, it is disassembly. Using a handle to lift the hood is a whole lot different than using a tool to look at the thermostate.

I wanted to make certain I wasn't blow smoke out my.... erm um ears so I did a little bit of "research". Opening a Sega Genisis to see if it is modded IS disassembly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpqEmDHwZTU

Starting at about 9:10 of the video

Saying that opening a sega genesis is like changing the battery of a watch is NOT comparable AT ALL. I would compare it more to opening an iphone and changing the battery which is disassembly.

To the OP, make certain to not to describe this as "opening the game", since that just sounds like they lifted the hood. You should win hands down.

ooak-tammy · ‎07-22-2017

@Anonymous wrote:
@ooak-tammy wrote:
You don't disassemble a game system by opening it up. Disassembly is taking parts out of it, not just unscrewing the screws and checking what's beneath the hood, so to speak.
Do you consider having a battery put into a watch "disassembly" ? Of course not and this is the same thing. The game system was designed to be opened up.
@ooak-tammy
Last I checked, a watch doesn't have screws on it that have to be removed to get to the battery. If you have to use tools to check what's beneath the hood, it is disassembly. Using a handle to lift the hood is a whole lot different than using a tool to look at the thermostate.

I wanted to make certain I wasn't blow smoke out my.... erm um ears so I did a little bit of "research". Opening a Sega Genisis to see if it is modded IS disassembly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpqEmDHwZTU
Starting at about 9:10 of the video

Saying that opening a sega genesis is like changing the battery of a watch is NOT comparable AT ALL. I would compare it more to opening an iphone and changing the battery which is disassembly.

To the OP, make certain to not to describe this as "opening the game", since that just sounds like they lifted the hood. You should win hands down.

If you ever have a watch battery installed, I suggest you watch what they do. They need a TOOL to open the back of the watch. Opening the back of your cell phone doesn't void the warrenty since you need to do that to put the battery in. Most cell phones come witht he battery packaged seperately.

This is not an apple ipod that is sealed, it is a genesis game consol that is designed to be easily opened.

omgitlightsup · ‎07-22-2017

Buying a vintage electronic device is not like buying a cell phone or an antique piece of furniture. It's more like buying a vintage guitar or motorcycle. It is critical to open and inspect an item sometimes.

It's not very widely-known, but electronic components are degradable parts, and electronics can be subjected to damage in use and storage that can worsen over time. This is especially true of toys. Capacitors (the item that our seller replaced) are probably the most noteworthy example, as any restorer of antique radios can tell you. They're also known to fail in GG's. You also frequently find corrosive battery residue or food spills inside these things. Solder joints can be broken in a fall, which over time could lead to component damage if, for example, a broken or shorted voltage regulator lets full battery power into a sensitive component.

Obviously repairs should be done by qualified personnel, but anyone with a screwdriver is qualified to take the back off of a video game console and look for obvious problems before powering a device up. There are plenty of YT videos out there that explain how to do it and what not to do to avoid breaking something. Even with a first-gen collectible iPod.

A warranty is another matter.. that's a guarantee from the manufacturer that the parts and workmanship will perform to spec for a certain period after purchase, and that ceased to be relevant a long time ago, when Milli Vanilli were still on the radio.

rolenboy01 · ‎07-22-2017

@ooak-tammy wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@ooak-tammy wrote:
You don't disassemble a game system by opening it up. Disassembly is taking parts out of it, not just unscrewing the screws and checking what's beneath the hood, so to speak.
Do you consider having a battery put into a watch "disassembly" ? Of course not and this is the same thing. The game system was designed to be opened up.
@ooak-tammy
Last I checked, a watch doesn't have screws on it that have to be removed to get to the battery. If you have to use tools to check what's beneath the hood, it is disassembly. Using a handle to lift the hood is a whole lot different than using a tool to look at the thermostate.

I wanted to make certain I wasn't blow smoke out my.... erm um ears so I did a little bit of "research". Opening a Sega Genisis to see if it is modded IS disassembly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpqEmDHwZTU
Starting at about 9:10 of the video

Saying that opening a sega genesis is like changing the battery of a watch is NOT comparable AT ALL. I would compare it more to opening an iphone and changing the battery which is disassembly.

To the OP, make certain to not to describe this as "opening the game", since that just sounds like they lifted the hood. You should win hands down.
If you ever have a watch battery installed, I suggest you watch what they do. They need a TOOL to open the back of the watch. Opening the back of your cell phone doesn't void the warrenty since you need to do that to put the battery in. Most cell phones come witht he battery packaged seperately.
This is not an apple ipod that is sealed, it is a genesis game consol that is designed to be easily opened.

You think someone should be able to buy a watch from you open it up and claim it doesn't have a modification to it that you never claimed it had in the first place and then return it on your dime? once someone opens something up for no apparent reason to look for something I never said was there in the first place I don't know if they've destroyed the item or not so I should not have to take it back, the only thing this buyer should have been doing is checking to see if the video game system worked as described they shouldn't be digging around for "extras" that were never said to be included.

Anonymous · ‎07-22-2017

@ooak-tammy wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@ooak-tammy wrote:
You don't disassemble a game system by opening it up. Disassembly is taking parts out of it, not just unscrewing the screws and checking what's beneath the hood, so to speak.
Do you consider having a battery put into a watch "disassembly" ? Of course not and this is the same thing. The game system was designed to be opened up.
@ooak-tammy
Last I checked, a watch doesn't have screws on it that have to be removed to get to the battery. If you have to use tools to check what's beneath the hood, it is disassembly. Using a handle to lift the hood is a whole lot different than using a tool to look at the thermostate.

I wanted to make certain I wasn't blow smoke out my.... erm um ears so I did a little bit of "research". Opening a Sega Genisis to see if it is modded IS disassembly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpqEmDHwZTU
Starting at about 9:10 of the video

Saying that opening a sega genesis is like changing the battery of a watch is NOT comparable AT ALL. I would compare it more to opening an iphone and changing the battery which is disassembly.

To the OP, make certain to not to describe this as "opening the game", since that just sounds like they lifted the hood. You should win hands down.
If you ever have a watch battery installed, I suggest you watch what they do. They need a TOOL to open the back of the watch. Opening the back of your cell phone doesn't void the warrenty since you need to do that to put the battery in. Most cell phones come witht he battery packaged seperately.
This is not an apple ipod that is sealed, it is a genesis game consol that is designed to be easily opened.

I haven't just watched a watch battery be installed, I've replaced many many of them since I sell them on another ID. You do not need a special tool, any sharp object will do and that is just to pry the back off. Opening a non-iphone to add a battery doesn't void your warranty, opening an iphone does.

The Genesis game consol was not DESIGNED to be easily opened, that is how things of this sort were built 22 years ago. I'm certain when it was designed, engineers weren't anticipating people would be modifying it.

omgitlightsup · ‎07-23-2017

@Anonymous wrote:
The Genesis game consol was not DESIGNED to be easily opened, that is how things of this sort were built 22 years ago. I'm certain when it was designed, engineers weren't anticipating people would be modifying it.

It takes only a phillips screwdriver to open a Genesis (btw OP was selling a Game Gear, not a Genesis.. but same thing). It was designed to be opened. In the 90s, electronics repair shops were still quite common, and one of the lessons learned from the original Nintendo Entertainment System was that these things do fail in time, and product life can be extended by aftermarket service. MCM electronics was one of the biggest suppliers of aftermarket repair parts for video games (and I think they still sell NES parts in fact).

You should not believe that "breaking the seal" on a video game constitutes some act of blemishing or tainting it. It's just as invasive a process as taking the wheel off your car to inspect the brakes, or removing the back cover of your clothes dryer so you can pull the lint out. If it's a 40-year old car, or a 20-year-old dryer, it's routine service.

There is an enormous difference between changing an iPhone battery and changing a watch battery. Apple straight up tells you not to change batteries or open your iPhone for any reason. You can literally destroy an iPhone simply by opening it if you don't know what you're doing. With a watch, you use an industry-standard tool in the manner indicated on the watch back. With a video game console, you remove the screws and separate the case halves.

I'm a EE with a specialty in computer graphics hardware design. If asked, I would tell my friends to go ahead and look inside their Genesis/GG just to satisfy curiosity. I would add that once the wire cutters or soldering iron come out, you're treading where only professionals should go.

rolenboy01 · ‎07-23-2017

The buyer had absolutely no reason to open the item whatsever, they put a game in it and test it if it works great if it doesn't open a SNAD case it's as simple as that, you DO NOT under any circumstances open the console to look for so called "mods" that were never mentioned and don't exist and then try to return the item because the mods that never existed weren't there.