Buyer of expensive item seems certain it will be destroyed in shipping (long)

[coltranefan]

I listed a fairly expensive "high-end" audio component on ebay recently (BIN or best offer). A guy with a zillion good feedbacks made a very good offer that I accepted.

Immediately after he paid, the messages began. Wanted fed-ex shipping, when I listed UPS ground as the shipping. I try hard to accommodate buyers, but I've had great success with UPS ground, both as buyer & seller. And have had weird experiences with fed-ex ground (It's a somewhat heavy item, so fed-ex air would be really expensive). Also I have a UPS acct., there's a UPS store 4 miles for drop-off from where I live, etc.

(And WHY don't buyers read the TOS?)  So I emailed him back saying some of that, he said OK, send UPS.  And then just a series of dire messages (very polite tho) about UPS not paying off if there is damage. Which I know --I've shipped probably hundreds of delicate items (crystal, china, etc.) over the years. Plus probably dozens of audio components, some keyboard, computers, etc. etc.

The guy is "putting the zap on my head"--making me almost fearful of shipping it, when I never would have been. I mean, I'm always concerned about shipping expensive items, but I do great packing, & have never had a problem as long as the item is shipped properly.

Also, this $1900 audio component has all the original factory packaging, that is the best packing I've ever seen on an audio component. I even took pics of the various stages of packing the double-box with the elaborate packing & sent to him.  His response was more warnings about how UPS won't pay off if damaged, etc.

He just can't seem to believe that the item will survive shipping, or that it's packed well enough. And yet he's SO polite. A friend of mine said, well as long as he gets it OK, things should be fine. But I don't know if he's setting me up to later claim that something's wrong with it? I've had some neurotic buyers, but this guy is creeping me out. I usually ship quickly, but I've been dragging my feet on this--instead of feeling good when I drop it off at UPS, I just think I'm gonna feel really nervous.

I mean, if he's this neurotic now, what can he find to be neurotic about once he get it? The thing is beautiful, but maybe he'll imagine there's damage?

I'm sorry to go on so long, but I've been buying & selling used audio equipment (for my own system) for a very long time, & this is kind of a new one.....

TIA for any advice

[castlemagicmemories]

I'm on the fence.  The reference to the 2" of padding concerns me.  You're saying there isn't two inches of padding.  Buyer has called that to your attention.  Is it really safe to ship without that under these circumstances?  If you cannot put two inches of padding around it, and you tell the buyer that, he may then cancel if that is what you want him to do.

But you have to do what you think is best.  Perhaps I am just a Nervous Nellie.

Good Luck, OP.

[castlemagicmemories]

Also I don't know what effect the hold for pick up would have on delivery confirmation, if any.

Hopefully others will be along to weigh in on this soon.

[jbbowers12012]

all the discussion on perfect "bulletproof" type packaging makes me not worry that your item may get damaged as it will most likely arrive at its destination a-ok if properly packed. what worries me a bit is your buyer CLAIMIMG that it was damaged. i would feel much better if you had not heard anything from your buyer after the sale & payment. have never shipped anything with a hold for pick up but think it would be ok.......still on the fence..... wish i could be more help. (you may have shipped by the time you read this so best of luck! let us know how it goes.)

[a_c_green]

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Also I don't know what effect the hold for pick up would have on delivery confirmation, if any.

Hopefully others will be along to weigh in on this soon.

---

It isn't Delivered until it's picked up. It can be held for pickup by either the buyer (specifying that in advance, which he can do on the USPS website) or by the carrier, at the carrier's discretion, if he does not see anywhere safe to leave the package.

[retrose1]

There is absolutely nothing that buyer could say to me that would convice me that they will not ind a problem with it after they get it.  Of course they want it.  If the buyer has had the problems they say they have had, they know that all they have to do is file a case with ebay and they get their money back.

The buyer does not have anything in their messages about how they care about the item itself, how it is rare and hard to find, or they have dreamed of getting one - Nope, they are more concerned with getting you to jump through hoops and to expect that it will arrive broke.

The packing peanuts will be two different colors and he is tramatized by it, or the styrofoam caused static and now it doesn't work, or the box contains a boom box and not the $1900 item he bought.  We have seen all these things on these boards and ebay finds for the buyer. And the seller is out the item and the money.

So the question is - can you afford to lose the item and the money?  If not, don't ship.  The only way I would pass that item out of my hands and into theirs is if they came to my house and picked it up themselves with cash in their hands.

[coltranefan]

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

I'm on the fence.  The reference to the 2" of padding concerns me.  You're saying there isn't two inches of padding.  Buyer has called that to your attention.  Is it really safe to ship without that under these circumstances?  If you cannot put two inches of padding around it, and you tell the buyer that, he may then cancel if that is what you want him to do.

But you have to do what you think is best.  Perhaps I am just a Nervous Nellie.

Good Luck, OP.

---

      "The reference to the 2" of padding concerns me."  Plus, he then added: "Let's face it, it they drop it, nothing will help."  Now, all this is in an email from him meant to reassure me to ship it, he trusts my ability in packing, etc. But this is the 7th or 8th go around of me describing the packing in great detail, sent him pics even (!), & then him again warning about damage, futile insurance claims, etc.

But yeah, technically it doesn't have 2" of "padding"--(just the best packaging I've ever seen for any audio component--I mean, I trust it, but I don't think that's the point with this situation).

It's possible that he hasn't bought a lot of "high-end" audio gear, bought one thing that was poorly packed, & that's all he can think about. But he seems obsessed  with it being damaged--he's still trying to negotiate the exact packaging. He has 1200 feedbacks--doesn't he know that the seller is ultimately responsible? (Or he does, & that's the point).

Did he make notice of the part in the listing where I mentioned "slight scuffing on the front panel" (along with detailed Pics)? What could that turn into? And like retrose1 said:

"The buyer does not have anything in their messages about how they care about the item itself, how it is rare and hard to find, or they have dreamed of getting one - Nope, they are more concerned with getting you to jump through hoops and to expect that it will arrive broke."

Yeah--nothing like: "I always wanted an slp-98--they're beautiful--just want to make sure it arrives safely".  Just this constant lecturing, & almost badgering, & warnings in every email about it getting damaged? And maybe he's so clueless he doesn't know how to put the 4 tubes in, & screws that up? 

I'm sorry to spend so much time on this here. The politeness of the guy keeps throwing me off of cancelling the sale. But I will--I'm usually a maniac about getting things shipped ASAP--it hasn't been totally (& obsessively) packed up, & still sitting on my LR floor for over a week w/o me shipping it--except for the bad feeling about this deal I can't shake.

I'll post again when I've cancelled the sale.

[jonathankirkland]

---

@retrose1 wrote:

There is absolutely nothing that buyer could say to me that would convice me that they will not ind a problem with it after they get it.  Of course they want it.  If the buyer has had the problems they say they have had, they know that all they have to do is file a case with ebay and they get their money back.

The buyer does not have anything in their messages about how they care about the item itself, how it is rare and hard to find, or they have dreamed of getting one - Nope, they are more concerned with getting you to jump through hoops and to expect that it will arrive broke.

The packing peanuts will be two different colors and he is tramatized by it, or the styrofoam caused static and now it doesn't work, or the box contains a boom box and not the $1900 item he bought.  We have seen all these things on these boards and ebay finds for the buyer. And the seller is out the item and the money.

So the question is - can you afford to lose the item and the money?  If not, don't ship.  The only way I would pass that item out of my hands and into theirs is if they came to my house and picked it up themselves with cash in their hands.

---

I agree with retrose 1000% here op.

I know it is a nice sale and a lot of money, but I think you really need to stick to your initial gut on this one and cancel the sale.

I'm sure another honest buyer will come along and it may take some time. But I really do NOT think it is a good idea to go with this buyer given his strange behavior and obsession with what could happen. Just stick to your initial gut instinct.

This time, I would say something like "Unfortunately, I've exhausted all possibilities and I won't be able to add 2 inches of padding. Shall we just cancel the sale?"

I feel like the reason he backpeddled slightly is to try to get you to still go ahead with the sale, but continue to lay groundwork for a future problem.

It's not worth the gamble!

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@coltranefan wrote:

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

I'm on the fence.  The reference to the 2" of padding concerns me.  You're saying there isn't two inches of padding.  Buyer has called that to your attention.  Is it really safe to ship without that under these circumstances?  If you cannot put two inches of padding around it, and you tell the buyer that, he may then cancel if that is what you want him to do.

But you have to do what you think is best.  Perhaps I am just a Nervous Nellie.

Good Luck, OP.

---

      "The reference to the 2" of padding concerns me."  Plus, he then added: "Let's face it, it they drop it, nothing will help."  Now, all this is in an email from him meant to reassure me to ship it, he trusts my ability in packing, etc. But this is the 7th or 8th go around of me describing the packing in great detail, sent him pics even (!), & then him again warning about damage, futile insurance claims, etc.

But yeah, technically it doesn't have 2" of "padding"--(just the best packaging I've ever seen for any audio component--I mean, I trust it, but I don't think that's the point with this situation).

It's possible that he hasn't bought a lot of "high-end" audio gear, bought one thing that was poorly packed, & that's all he can think about. But he seems obsessed  with it being damaged--he's still trying to negotiate the exact packaging. He has 1200 feedbacks--doesn't he know that the seller is ultimately responsible? (Or he does, & that's the point).

Did he make notice of the part in the listing where I mentioned "slight scuffing on the front panel" (along with detailed Pics)? What could that turn into? And like retrose1 said:

"The buyer does not have anything in their messages about how they care about the item itself, how it is rare and hard to find, or they have dreamed of getting one - Nope, they are more concerned with getting you to jump through hoops and to expect that it will arrive broke."

Yeah--nothing like: "I always wanted an slp-98--they're beautiful--just want to make sure it arrives safely".  Just this constant lecturing, & almost badgering, & warnings in every email about it getting damaged? And maybe he's so clueless he doesn't know how to put the 4 tubes in, & screws that up? 

I'm sorry to spend so much time on this here. The politeness of the guy keeps throwing me off of cancelling the sale. But I will--I'm usually a maniac about getting things shipped ASAP--it hasn't been totally (& obsessively) packed up, & still sitting on my LR floor for over a week w/o me shipping it--except for the bad feeling about this deal I can't shake.

I'll post again when I've cancelled the sale.

 @coltranefan

That is a concern, buyer not saying how much he wants this, etc.  I understand you don't think the 2" is the point, but he brought that up, so that is a concern he has.  Will he be happy if you ship without that when he has told you that this is UPS's requirement?  I don't know.

But I also wonder, if the item does not show delivery until it is picked up, what is to keep the buyer from doing what some buyers over seas do, who let the item sit in customs, file INR, and get a refund, then go and pick the item up?

Possibly this buyer could let it sit there til a claim plays out, then go and pick it up?  That appears to be true.

I totally understand that he would not want an expensive system sitting in his front yard, but...

I just don't know.  

---

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@a_c_green wrote:

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Also I don't know what effect the hold for pick up would have on delivery confirmation, if any.

Hopefully others will be along to weigh in on this soon.

---

It isn't Delivered until it's picked up. It can be held for pickup by either the buyer (specifying that in advance, which he can do on the USPS website) or by the carrier, at the carrier's discretion, if he does not see anywhere safe to leave the package.

---

@a_c_green

A_C, is it possible that this could turn out to be like overseas buyers who let the item sit in customs, file an INR, get their money back, and then go and pick up their item?  Could this buyer let it sit until he picks it up, file an INR, get his money back, and then go and pick it up?  I totally understand that buyer may not want an expensive system sitting in their front yard and at risk, but...

[jonathankirkland]

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

---

---

@a_c_green

A_C, is it possible that this could turn out to be like overseas buyers who let the item sit in customs, file an INR, get their money back, and then go and pick up their item?  Could this buyer let it sit until he picks it up, file an INR, get his money back, and then go and pick it up?  I totally understand that buyer may not want an expensive system sitting in their front yard and at risk, but...

---

Well that is what delivery with signature confirmation would avoid.

I have learned very quickly here that selling anything for more than $100 it is well worth investing in signature confirmation.

Also I thought I read that any purchase above $750 requires mandatory signature confirmation?

[a_c_green]

---

castlemagicmemories wrote: 
A_C, is it possible that this could turn out to be like overseas buyers who let the item sit in customs, file an INR, get their money back, and then go and pick up their item?  Could this buyer let it sit until he picks it up, file an INR, get his money back, and then go and pick it up?  I totally understand that buyer may not want an expensive system sitting in their front yard and at risk, but...

---

(I struck through a phrase that I don't think you meant to have in that sentence above...)

Hmmm... technically I guess that's possible. If he waits too long, the PO will simply return it to the sender anyway, so he'd have to have his timing for filing the INR just right: he can't file it before the last estimated date of delivery, and he'd have to win it before the PO ships the package back.

The seller might be able to get the package recalled if the INR is filed and it's obvious that the buyer is deliberately not going to pick it up. Also, being domestic mail, it's a little easier for the seller to phone the buyer's PO and say, "Look, this is what I think is going on with package 98765432123456789..." In other words, I don't think the Customs-delay scam is as likely to work over here, but stranger things have happened.

Best I can say at this moment is that if it were that easy to pull off the scam domestically, we'd be hearing about it a lot more often.

[rolenboy01]

All I can add again even though it's already been said is it's impossible to pull off a scam if the item is never shipped to suspected scammer.

[getitright1234]

READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL, FLOOR, and CEILING, you Will Have problems with This Buyer!  I would not ship.   

[classic_luxe]

What's the possibility that the buyer already owns the item and it is damaged and he is setting this up to return his damaged item for your brand new one? The old "switcheroo".

[tunicaslot]

OP you have to make a decision now - holding this up for a week - everyone on the boards making assumptions -  it's gone too far. Either you cancel or send the item.

It may indeed be someone trying to scam you - or it may be a person who has a control issue as they've had problems in the past and want things done a certain way to hopefully avoid receiving a damaged item.