Buyer is wanting a Return on an item They "think" is not authentic What more can i do then reporting

[michaeldamico]

Hi i normaly don't start a conversation i normaly step into others, but this is just making me mad. I sold a purse that is an authentic have had every detail down to the photos and the description. The seller just contacted me a day after getting it saying they want a return on it because they "think" it might not be authentic. I am dumbfounded. I have sold designer bags before and i know this is real. I have already put one foot in the direction of saving my butt by reporting the buyer for lying about the item as not described but what can i do from there. I am 100 percent certain of all the items i sell and have a no return policy in place as well. What else can i do. Obviously i am to block this seller afterwards but i am still ticked and antsy. I don't like being told i'm lying. 

[equid0x]

---

@michaeldamico wrote:

Wow i am so glad i never opened up a shop. i never knew how bad it was to sell. why do people do it then?? I have sold some designer bags here and there with authentification and had no issues, but this is crazy! God i bet Amazon would be better to go through. I will call ebay tommorow morning.  Let's see if the seller gets back to me. She first said she thinks it is not real then she started flipping out on my long description list AND even an official site video of authenticity on this vintage bag plus the little piece of paper that says it's real.... and she started changing her tune saying she went to some consignment store and they said it wasn't and how she owned several and she KNEW i was not telling the truth because of that. So let's see if she answers my question of where she had it so called evaluated at. 

---

Ahhh... there it is! What happened was she thought she bought your bag at a steal, and was going to make more on it at the consignment shop on resale. She took it to the consignment shop and they told her she wasn't going to make her money back and now she wants to return it. 

I would ask flat out if the consignment shop in question is an authorized retailer of the product in question, and what, if any, credentials that shop has to verify the authenticity of the bag. 

[equid0x]

---

@femmefan1946 wrote:

The buyer doesn't want the bag.

Maybe it is the real deal, but the buyer doesn't want the bag.

Maybe she's lying in her dentures, but the buyer doesn't want the bag.

The point is the buyer doesn't want the bag.

You can specify No Returns, but you cannot specify No REFUNDS.

Tell her to return the bag for a full refund.

When you get it back, return her payment, and cancel the sale as "buyer request".

Relist.

Add the buyer to your Blocked Bidder List as a timewaster.

All that is happening here is that the buyer doesn't want the bag.

This is business , not personal.

The new buyer, when you relist and sell, won't know it was ever rejected by someone  who  doesn't want the bag.

BTW, if you refuse the return and she goes to eBay, you will be paying for the return postage as well. You want her to pay for it.

If you have to pay for return postage, be polite and professional, because you want a happy customer who leaves you positive feedback.

Not a furious one who carries her incontinent Yorkie, Stinky, around in the bag for a day before returning it in a kraft paper envelope.

---

This is sound advice. While I realize it may theortically be in the seller's favor to handle the return directly, I personally like to make sure that the buyer opens a return with eBay so that their pattern of behavior(and I strongly suspect that many of these people fit a serial returners pattern) can be tracked and acted on by eBay. 

[equid0x]

---

@fashunu4eeuh wrote:

---

@michaeldamico wrote:

Wow i am so glad i never opened up a shop. i never knew how bad it was to sell. why do people do it then?? I have sold some designer bags here and there with authentification and had no issues, but this is crazy! God i bet Amazon would be better to go through. I will call ebay tommorow morning.  Let's see if the seller gets back to me. She first said she thinks it is not real then she started flipping out on my long description list AND even an official site video of authenticity on this vintage bag plus the little piece of paper that says it's real.... and she started changing her tune saying she went to some consignment store and they said it wasn't and how she owned several and she KNEW i was not telling the truth because of that. So let's see if she answers my question of where she had it so called evaluated at. 

---

It is rarely a good idea to get into a back-and-forth with an unsatisfied customer. It is a waste of your time and effort to ask “gotcha” questions of a determined buyer. What benefit is there in asking who identified the bag as real or fake? You suspect they are lying to get a free return, what need do you have for further conversation from such a person? It will not mitigate the circumstances and has the potential to escalate them instead. 

You are a successful seller with an unblemished record. You don’t need this and all the aggravation it brings. Accept the return, block the buyer, relist your item. Avoid the defect. And then move on.  The other poster gave sound advice about developing a thicker skin. It is business, not personal, even though it might get to you.

One final note. There is a remote possibility the item is a well-executed counterfeit. It doesn’t hurt to have an expensive handbag authenticated, then roll the cost into your asking price. It wont guarantee that a SNAD won’t happen, but it might give a scammer pause and encourage them to move on to greener pastures elsewhere.

---

I strongly disagree. If you can catch them in writing in a lie then that is strong evidence in your favor. As pricey as some handbags can be, I can see something like this making it to a civil/criminal filiing in which case such evidence will be quite useful. 

[equid0x]

---

@albertabrightalberta wrote:

---

@michaeldamico wrote:

I sold a purse that is an authentic have had every detail down to the photos and the description. 

*snip*

I am 100 percent certain of all the items i sell 

---

@michaeldamico - You keep saying you know the bag is authentic. 

May I ask how you know? 

Unless you bought that bag directly from Gucci or from an authorized partner department store and unless you are expert in the brand, you probably wouldn't recognize a fake. 

OP, compare your serial tags in the following and tell me what you notice. (Note that on authentic identical bags, they should be identical in font, placement on tab, spacing, etc.)

---

I am not a handbag afficionado, but this sparks my curiosity. With everything being fabricated in China these days, and the accompanying lack of quality control, how can you really know for sure on the basis of the stamping alone, that the item in question is fake?

I'm sure the leather stamping machine at Gucci eventually breaks down, get repaired, replaced, or whatever, yielding different font. 

I notice that the logo stamp is not straight, but I don't see this as a smoking gun. The manufacturer only needs to make 50.0000001% of the parts in Italy to stamp it "Made in Italy". Also, can't speak for handbags, but Italian cars are notoriously bad in the quality control and reliability department. 

Just because the seller didn't buy it from Gucci directly doesn't mean its fake. Just because the seller isn't an authorized partner or reseller doesn't mean the bag is fake. 

In my experience, most fake anything have obvious errors in the logo and usually all the fakes have the same SN if its an SN'd item, have very poor quality materials and workmanship, etc. 

Even a large number of "Swiss watches" these days have Chinese or Japanese movements and they are still actually 100% "real and bonified" Swiss watches produced and sold under license/direction of the Manufacturer. That does not make them fake. 

[missjen831]

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@albertabrightalberta wrote:

---

@michaeldamico wrote:

I sold a purse that is an authentic have had every detail down to the photos and the description. 

*snip*

I am 100 percent certain of all the items i sell 

---

@michaeldamico - You keep saying you know the bag is authentic. 

May I ask how you know? 

Unless you bought that bag directly from Gucci or from an authorized partner department store and unless you are expert in the brand, you probably wouldn't recognize a fake. 

OP, compare your serial tags in the following and tell me what you notice. (Note that on authentic identical bags, they should be identical in font, placement on tab, spacing, etc.)

---

I am not a handbag afficionado, but this sparks my curiosity. With everything being fabricated in China these days, and the accompanying lack of quality control, how can you really know for sure on the basis of the stamping alone, that the item in question is fake?

I'm sure the leather stamping machine at Gucci eventually breaks down, get repaired, replaced, or whatever, yielding different font. 

I notice that the logo stamp is not straight, but I don't see this as a smoking gun. The manufacturer only needs to make 50.0000001% of the parts in Italy to stamp it "Made in Italy". Also, can't speak for handbags, but Italian cars are notoriously bad in the quality control and reliability department. 

Just because the seller didn't buy it from Gucci directly doesn't mean its fake. Just because the seller isn't an authorized partner or reseller doesn't mean the bag is fake. 

In my experience, most fake anything have obvious errors in the logo and usually all the fakes have the same SN if its an SN'd item, have very poor quality materials and workmanship, etc. 

Even a large number of "Swiss watches" these days have Chinese or Japanese movements and they are still actually 100% "real and bonified" Swiss watches produced and sold under license/direction of the Manufacturer. That does not make them fake. 

---

High-end bags are a different ballgame. While fake clothing typically has misspelled words and incorrect logos, high end bags do not. There are a lot of very very good fakes out there. 

[equid0x]

---

@missjen831 wrote:

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

@albertabrightalberta wrote:

---

@michaeldamico wrote:

I sold a purse that is an authentic have had every detail down to the photos and the description. 

*snip*

I am 100 percent certain of all the items i sell 

---

@michaeldamico - You keep saying you know the bag is authentic. 

May I ask how you know? 

Unless you bought that bag directly from Gucci or from an authorized partner department store and unless you are expert in the brand, you probably wouldn't recognize a fake. 

OP, compare your serial tags in the following and tell me what you notice. (Note that on authentic identical bags, they should be identical in font, placement on tab, spacing, etc.)

---

I am not a handbag afficionado, but this sparks my curiosity. With everything being fabricated in China these days, and the accompanying lack of quality control, how can you really know for sure on the basis of the stamping alone, that the item in question is fake?

I'm sure the leather stamping machine at Gucci eventually breaks down, get repaired, replaced, or whatever, yielding different font. 

I notice that the logo stamp is not straight, but I don't see this as a smoking gun. The manufacturer only needs to make 50.0000001% of the parts in Italy to stamp it "Made in Italy". Also, can't speak for handbags, but Italian cars are notoriously bad in the quality control and reliability department. 

Just because the seller didn't buy it from Gucci directly doesn't mean its fake. Just because the seller isn't an authorized partner or reseller doesn't mean the bag is fake. 

In my experience, most fake anything have obvious errors in the logo and usually all the fakes have the same SN if its an SN'd item, have very poor quality materials and workmanship, etc. 

Even a large number of "Swiss watches" these days have Chinese or Japanese movements and they are still actually 100% "real and bonified" Swiss watches produced and sold under license/direction of the Manufacturer. That does not make them fake. 

---

High-end bags are a different ballgame. While fake clothing typically has misspelled words and incorrect logos, high end bags do not. There are a lot of very very good fakes out there. 

---

Agreed, but even in the high-end fake watch game, there are some other tells on the well-made fakes. I just don't feel like the logo and serial font alone are enough to say the bag is fake.

I own a vintage Invicta watch that I had a local "expert" look at who thought it was fake because they "had never seen one like it" including logo engravings. I had this watch authenticated by Invicta themselves and it is authentic and a one-of-a-kind custom built unit that they happened to have records of. However, to a layman, I guess its fake because they've never seen one before...

Not trying to argue, just throwing that out there. 

[mam98031]

---

@albertabrightalberta wrote:

---

@michaeldamico wrote:

I sold a purse that is an authentic have had every detail down to the photos and the description. 

*snip*

I am 100 percent certain of all the items i sell 

---

@michaeldamico - You keep saying you know the bag is authentic. 

May I ask how you know? 

Unless you bought that bag directly from Gucci or from an authorized partner department store and unless you are expert in the brand, you probably wouldn't recognize a fake. 

OP, compare your serial tags in the following and tell me what you notice. (Note that on authentic identical bags, they should be identical in font, placement on tab, spacing, etc.)

---

I am no expert in this type of stuff.  But I have a question.  Why do the two purses have the same serial number?

[equid0x]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@albertabrightalberta wrote:

---

@michaeldamico wrote:

I sold a purse that is an authentic have had every detail down to the photos and the description. 

*snip*

I am 100 percent certain of all the items i sell 

---

@michaeldamico - You keep saying you know the bag is authentic. 

May I ask how you know? 

Unless you bought that bag directly from Gucci or from an authorized partner department store and unless you are expert in the brand, you probably wouldn't recognize a fake. 

OP, compare your serial tags in the following and tell me what you notice. (Note that on authentic identical bags, they should be identical in font, placement on tab, spacing, etc.)

---

I am no expert in this type of stuff.  But I have a question.  Why do the two purses have the same serial number?

---

That's an excellent question. Maybe they are both fake? Remember what I said about the duplicate SNs on fakes...

I guess for the bag in question, my hang-up with the logo is that the logo itself does look the same as the other bag, even if not perfectly centered. You really have no way to tell if the logo is off-center due to stretching of the leather.  In my experience, and granted its not much, but the designer fakes I have seen, there is always something "off" about the logo itself.. like the characters are slightly diferent or something like that. I wouldn't apply the same standard to serial number stamps, though. The logos here looks pretty identical to me, though. 

[mam98031]

Well I find it very interesting that the serial numbers are the same.  Also the piping / stitching at the base of the underside tag doesn't look of Gucci quality.  Right at the base of the tag on the side the serial number appears.  But again, I have no idea how to tell if it is right or wrong.

[equid0x]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

Well I find it very interesting that the serial numbers are the same.  Also the piping / stitching at the base of the underside tag doesn't look of Gucci quality.  Right at the base of the tag on the side the serial number appears.  But again, I have no idea how to tell if it is right or wrong.

---

Its not something I noticed until it was pointed out, even if I did mention it! Mainly because I had a hard time with the "real" example's picture being in low quality. 

Given that the item has an SN, it should be possible for Gucci to verify the production of the bag, given that the 2 units are pretty obviously completely different bags. This supposing Gucci does not repeat SNs or use the same series on different product lines, or accidentally label 2 items with the same SN(Yes, this happens. I worked for a large commercial electronics manufacturer, and while exceedingly rare, we did have an occasional duplicate SN that got out the door. I'm talking like 4 or 5 out of hundreds of thousands of production units, and we knew they weren't fake, because we had sales records to both of the customers with the same SN.)

I'm not a handbag pro so can't really comment on the stitching. The stitching didn't look too terrible in the OP's pic, but I don't necessarily know what I'm looking for.

Several posters commented that the bag was fake, so I am interested to know why they think so?

[albertabrightalberta]

---

@equid0x wrote:

---

Just because the seller didn't buy it from Gucci directly doesn't mean its fake. Just because the seller isn't an authorized partner or reseller doesn't mean the bag is fake. 

---

I didn't say that it's fake just because the seller didn't buy from Gucci. What I said is that unless the OP is an expert in the brand, if she/he didn't buy from Gucci then he doesn't know it's genuine and should have authenticated it before listing. (That's the law and as such, it's ebay policy.) 

[albertabrightalberta]

Although we call them "serial numbers," they aren't really serial numbers but rather indicate style and production information.

Identical bags can have the same 2 sets of numbers, as those in my example.

It's not only the numbers that have to be correct but the font, the spacing, the location of the numbers on the tab, etc.

Bottom line is that the OP did sell a fake (knowingly or not) and owes the buyer a refund.

[ed8108]

Whenever authenticity is challenged, the owner always has a financial interest in believing the item to be original and not a well crafted counterfit. 

Differences of opinion among experts is also not surprising.

[albertabrightalberta]

Here's a tutorial on how to "read" Gucci serial numbers.

Keep in mind that having a "valid" serial number doesn't mean that the bag it's on is authentic.

https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/gucci-101-how-to-read-gucci-tags.684537/#post-19030297

[equid0x]

---

@ed8108 wrote:

Whenever authenticity is challenged, the owner always has a financial interest in believing the item to be original and not a well crafted counterfit. 

Differences of opinion among experts is also not surprising.

---

I agree. I have done some quick research on this since the post, and as expected, lots of different opinions.

- A few sites say the logo may not be straight on legit bags.

- Some sites say the SN must be straight and evenly spaced. Some sites say that some legit bags do not have straight and evenly spaced numbers.

- Most sites seem to agree that the top number is a production number, and the bottom a serial.

- Some sites say SNs may be repeated.

- Every site that mentions it says that SNs are not cataloged by Gucci, so cannot be verified.

- Some sites say the logo doesn't have the R trademark stamp on some bags.

- Some sites say some bags have no SN.

- All sites seem to refer to the font in the "legit bag" photo for the SN as being the official SN font, but even pictures on those same sites seem to show SNs with slightly different fonts.

- All sites refer to the logo font. IMHO the logo font on the OPs bag is remarkably close to the alleged "real" Gucci bags. If its fake, its a **bleep** good one.

- There are several example photos out there that show obviously fake logos. OPs bag isn't one of them. 

I will say this. The OP's bag does have a SN font that doesn't seem to match the "real" Gucci SN fonts that I can find. That said, there seems to be significant variation in those fonts, although they do tend to be similar. 

The reason I am so interested in the logo is because that is the vendor's registered trademark. For the purposes of legally defending your trademark, the logo must be very consistent. Any vendor will take special care to make sure the trademark is appropriately applied. Serial numbers are not a trademark and therefore, not too important in the grand scheme of things. 

Looking at some other real vs fake comparisons of the same bag, there are many other inconsistencies visible on the fake bags, which is why I'm interested in what others here see that is inconsistent.