Buyer had item a month, now says it's fake and "highly illegal"...

[lymo_64]

I sold an older LV item that came from an estate sale recently. Before I listed it, I did a lot of research to at least make my own self comfortable that it wasn't an obvious counterfeit.  Had it been, I would have never listed it, that is NOT how I roll. I've found multiple sales of a the same and similar (different colors) here that go back months and all referenced that it was an "older" piece. I also saw a couple sold on outside sites that said the same. It had plenty of bids, too. 

Buyer has had item nearly 4 weeks now and has today decided that they *believe* it's not authentic and want to know how I can prove to them it is real. They flat out called it "highly illegal" to sell. While I agree with that notion, she doesn't even know that it is fake, she just wants me to prove that it is real. Shouldn't these concerns have been raised before now? Short of paying someone to authenticate it, that is simply not possible. I would only consider doing this if I had it back in my hands and in the condition I sent it (which was near perfect). 

For the record, I've offered a refund upon return, but I have a feeling she isn't really wanting that. I went back through her FB... she's left 4 negatives for "fakes" and used that "highly illegal" term there, too. I can't imagine why anyone one keep buying higher end items here if they got "ripped off" so much. I know I would not. 

I have an otherwise perfect record and there was zero intent to do anything wrong on my part. I will refund if I get it back, but I already have a bad feeling... and why did it take so long to decide that it wasn't authentic?! 

Any advice from the more seasoned vets here is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[a*river*runs*through*it]

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@awishingwell wrote:

we have a couple of LV stores here in town - when I get one (rare) I simply pop over to the store - they can tell in a minute - I kinda stopped listing handbags a few years back.  I have a MK sitting here on my desk I might have a stab at for xmas - I have the original receipt in the handbag so it probably won't be a problem

Just ask her to open the return - chances are she won't - just another scammer

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Actually the OP sold a Counterfeit scarf. The buyer is correct in wanting a return. She is not a scammer in this particular instance.

[a*river*runs*through*it]

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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@lymo_64 wrote:

I sold an older LV item that came from an estate sale recently. Before I listed it, I did a lot of research to at least make my own self comfortable that it wasn't an obvious counterfeit.  Had it been, I would have never listed it, that is NOT how I roll. I've found multiple sales of a the same and similar (different colors) here that go back months and all referenced that it was an "older" piece. I also saw a couple sold on outside sites that said the same. It had plenty of bids, too. 

Buyer has had item nearly 4 weeks now and has today decided that they *believe* it's not authentic and want to know how I can prove to them it is real. They flat out called it "highly illegal" to sell. While I agree with that notion, she doesn't even know that it is fake, she just wants me to prove that it is real. Shouldn't these concerns have been raised before now? Short of paying someone to authenticate it, that is simply not possible. I would only consider doing this if I had it back in my hands and in the condition I sent it (which was near perfect). 

For the record, I've offered a refund upon return, but I have a feeling she isn't really wanting that. I went back through her FB... she's left 4 negatives for "fakes" and used that "highly illegal" term there, too. I can't imagine why anyone one keep buying higher end items here if they got "ripped off" so much. I know I would not. 

I have an otherwise perfect record and there was zero intent to do anything wrong on my part. I will refund if I get it back, but I already have a bad feeling... and why did it take so long to decide that it wasn't authentic?! 

Any advice from the more seasoned vets here is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Authentication issues are all pretty much guaranteed for the buyer.
Another issue you can run into with this is the buyer really does not have to send it back as it is illegal for them to put it in the mail just as much as it is for you to require they do. They may send it back but if they know the laws then they won't...and they will still get a refund.

And if they are a purse buyer then considering this is ebay and the mount of fakes on the site, it is understandable if they have had other issues....so take that with a grain of salt. (I would be surprised if all of a sudden everyone now decides that designer purses is not one of largest categories of counterfeits on the site just to trash a buyer.)

If you are not 100% sure and can prove it, then rule of thumb is do not list it.

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That is absolutely false. It is NOT illegal to return an item real or fake.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@a*river*runs*through*it wrote:

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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@lymo_64 wrote:

I sold an older LV item that came from an estate sale recently. Before I listed it, I did a lot of research to at least make my own self comfortable that it wasn't an obvious counterfeit.  Had it been, I would have never listed it, that is NOT how I roll. I've found multiple sales of a the same and similar (different colors) here that go back months and all referenced that it was an "older" piece. I also saw a couple sold on outside sites that said the same. It had plenty of bids, too. 

Buyer has had item nearly 4 weeks now and has today decided that they *believe* it's not authentic and want to know how I can prove to them it is real. They flat out called it "highly illegal" to sell. While I agree with that notion, she doesn't even know that it is fake, she just wants me to prove that it is real. Shouldn't these concerns have been raised before now? Short of paying someone to authenticate it, that is simply not possible. I would only consider doing this if I had it back in my hands and in the condition I sent it (which was near perfect). 

For the record, I've offered a refund upon return, but I have a feeling she isn't really wanting that. I went back through her FB... she's left 4 negatives for "fakes" and used that "highly illegal" term there, too. I can't imagine why anyone one keep buying higher end items here if they got "ripped off" so much. I know I would not. 

I have an otherwise perfect record and there was zero intent to do anything wrong on my part. I will refund if I get it back, but I already have a bad feeling... and why did it take so long to decide that it wasn't authentic?! 

Any advice from the more seasoned vets here is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Authentication issues are all pretty much guaranteed for the buyer.
Another issue you can run into with this is the buyer really does not have to send it back as it is illegal for them to put it in the mail just as much as it is for you to require they do. They may send it back but if they know the laws then they won't...and they will still get a refund.

And if they are a purse buyer then considering this is ebay and the mount of fakes on the site, it is understandable if they have had other issues....so take that with a grain of salt. (I would be surprised if all of a sudden everyone now decides that designer purses is not one of largest categories of counterfeits on the site just to trash a buyer.)

If you are not 100% sure and can prove it, then rule of thumb is do not list it.

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That is absolutely false. It is NOT illegal to return an item real or fake.

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Using the USPS or any other carrier to mail counterfeits items is very much illegal ask any of them they will explain it to you....or hire a lawyer to explain it.
Obviously if an item is not counterfeit then it is not illegal to mail it.

[a*river*runs*through*it]

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures

Read 136.3 here from the USPS Postal Explorer:

https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc1_015.htm

136.3 Counterfeit and Pirated Items

Any type of counterfeit or pirated article is prohibited in outbound international mail.

It is LEGAL to mail it back inside the US.

[myjunqueyourtreasure]

Please. This has been gone over so many times over the years.

It is NOT "illegal" to return a fake through the mail.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@a*river*runs*through*it wrote:

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures

Read 136.3 here from the USPS Postal Explorer:

https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc1_015.htm

136.3 Counterfeit and Pirated Items

Any type of counterfeit or pirated article is prohibited in outbound international mail.

It is LEGAL to mail it back inside the US.

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Mailing counterfeits anywhere is illegal. Counterfeits themselves are illegal.

[a*river*runs*through*it]

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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@a*river*runs*through*it wrote:

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures

Read 136.3 here from the USPS Postal Explorer:

https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc1_015.htm

136.3 Counterfeit and Pirated Items

Any type of counterfeit or pirated article is prohibited in outbound international mail.

It is LEGAL to mail it back inside the US.

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Mailing counterfeits anywhere is illegal. Counterfeits themselves are illegal.

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Well then you better report the USPS to the feds then!

Did you even read the USPS rules?

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO MAIL A COUNTERFEIT WITHIN THE US BORDERS.

I'm pretty sure the USPS knows the law.

[annasunicorns]

^well, at least we agree with the buyer that this is all highly illegal. Lol.

Sorry OP, I hope you get it back and a refund.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@a*river*runs*through*it wrote:

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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@a*river*runs*through*it wrote:

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures

Read 136.3 here from the USPS Postal Explorer:

https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc1_015.htm

136.3 Counterfeit and Pirated Items

Any type of counterfeit or pirated article is prohibited in outbound international mail.

It is LEGAL to mail it back inside the US.

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Mailing counterfeits anywhere is illegal. Counterfeits themselves are illegal.

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Well then you better report the USPS to the feds then!

Did you even read the USPS rules?

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO MAIL A COUNTERFEIT WITHIN THE US BORDERS.

I'm pretty sure the USPS knows the law.

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Oh they do and don't merely look at one thing off the internet as proof of anything as the whole.
But ebay also knows as it is illegal as well here is the policy.....and it is not a new policy and written this way for a reason.

Counterfeit items

If a buyer reports that an item is counterfeit, and there are strong indicators that the item is counterfeit, we may not require the buyer to return the item to the seller. The buyer agrees to cooperate with us to ensure proper disposal of the item. In such instances, we refund the buyer for the full cost of the item and original shipping, and the seller reimburses us for the refund. The buyer may not sell the item on eBay or elsewhere.

You all are mistaking when it is a matter of opinion of when something is illegal for a fact that it is illegal.
But again that is why people should hire attorney's to give legal advice...and not take things off the internet in bits and pieces

[albertabrightalberta]

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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Mailing counterfeits anywhere is illegal. Counterfeits themselves are illegal.

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You are wrong. 

The SALE of counterfeit items is illegal. 

The return of that fake is NOT illegal and it CAN be returned by US mail. 

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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Mailing counterfeits anywhere is illegal. Counterfeits themselves are illegal.

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You are wrong. 

The SALE of counterfeit items is illegal. 

The return of that fake is NOT illegal and it CAN be returned by US mail. 

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The counterfeit item itself is illegal, The sale is illegal, trafficking (which includes mailing) the counterfet is illegal, and a bunch of other things are illegal when it comes to conterfeits.
There are federal laws, state laws and international laws, homeland sercurity laws, Customs laws, consumer proitection laws etc...all dealing with counterfeits...not just one blurb off the internet. Ebay has even written it's own policy in a way to protect itself from making buyers mail back counterfeits for a reason, which was also done by their lawyers...because they cannot force a buyer to mailbackthe counterfeit when there is indicators of it being counterfeit.

Not to mention all any buyer has to do it turn it into the authorities and file a report and there is another whole world of trouble for a seller. Or even the postmaster as it would also fall to a seller committing postal fraud.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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The counterfeit item itself is illegal, The sale is illegal, trafficking (which includes mailing) the counterfet is illegal, and a bunch of other things are illegal when it comes to conterfeits.
There are federal laws, state laws and international laws, homeland sercurity laws, Customs laws, consumer proitection laws etc...all dealing with counterfeits...not just one blurb off the internet. Ebay has even written it's own policy in a way to protect itself from making buyers mail back counterfeits for a reason, which was also done by their lawyers...because they cannot force a buyer to mailbackthe counterfeit when there is indicators of it being counterfeit.

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This is my last response because either you aren't willing to listen, read or understand what you've been told (and what's posted on USPS's website) or you're just wanting to be argumentative. 

It's not "trafficking" when a buyer who has been ripped off (purposely or not) returns that fake to the seller.

"Trafficking" is the manufacture, sale and distribution of counterfeit items, clearly not what's being done by buyers who receive fakes. 

FYI, in the US, it's not illegal to OWN a fake. It's only illegal to resell it. So if someone wants to go to Canal Street (NYC) and buy fakes, those buyers aren't breaking any laws although the peddlers who sell are. 

As for the part of ebay's policy that states that buyers may not be required to return fakes, there are a few reasons for that. In some countries (NOT THE US), it's illegal to have a fake returned so those sellers may not get their item back. And even in the US, if a seller who insists on a "no return" policy and declines to take the item back even though the buyer wants to return it, ebay will assume the seller doesn't want the item and will (in those cases) issue a refund from the seller's account as well as telling the buyer to destroy the item.

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures - if you would read the posts from posters with whom you're arguing, you might understand where your thinking is skewed. 

[stmoore0]

The SELLER trafficked in counterfeit goods, the buyer is merely returning the fake

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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The counterfeit item itself is illegal, The sale is illegal, trafficking (which includes mailing) the counterfet is illegal, and a bunch of other things are illegal when it comes to conterfeits.
There are federal laws, state laws and international laws, homeland sercurity laws, Customs laws, consumer proitection laws etc...all dealing with counterfeits...not just one blurb off the internet. Ebay has even written it's own policy in a way to protect itself from making buyers mail back counterfeits for a reason, which was also done by their lawyers...because they cannot force a buyer to mailbackthe counterfeit when there is indicators of it being counterfeit.

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This is my last response because either you aren't willing to listen, read or understand what you've been told (and what's posted on USPS's website) or you're just wanting to be argumentative. 

It's not "trafficking" when a buyer who has been ripped off (purposely or not) returns that fake to the seller.

"Trafficking" is the manufacture, sale and distribution of counterfeit items, clearly not what's being done by buyers who receive fakes. 

FYI, in the US, it's not illegal to OWN a fake. It's only illegal to resell it. So if someone wants to go to Canal Street (NYC) and buy fakes, those buyers aren't breaking any laws although the peddlers who sell are. 

As for the part of ebay's policy that states that buyers may not be required to return fakes, there are a few reasons for that. In some countries (NOT THE US), it's illegal to have a fake returned so those sellers may not get their item back. And even in the US, if a seller who insists on a "no return" policy and declines to take the item back even though the buyer wants to return it, ebay will assume the seller doesn't want the item and will (in those cases) issue a refund from the seller's account as well as telling the buyer to destroy the item.

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures - if you would read the posts from posters with whom you're arguing, you might understand where your thinking is skewed. 

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I am sorry....did I miss a post from a licensed attorney specialized in this area of the law?? I would be glad to take a look at it, if you would be so kind as to let me know which post that was.

[a*river*runs*through*it]

"I am sorry....did I miss a post from a licensed attorney specialized in this area of the law?? I would be glad to take a look at it if you would be so kind as to let me know which post that was."

You don't need to be a licensed attorney to read the US Postal Regulations or to read the Federal rules about Counterfeits.

Everything that was posted about returning a fake is FACT. 

You can continue to argue about this until the cows come home but you still incorrect.

Carry on and have a blessed day.