Buyer claims item not as described when it clearly was

[fanfareplayer]

I recently sold a letter written by Thomas Edison. In the listing I CLEARLY stated that the letter was lamanated for protection. (Letter was lamenated personally by me nearly 20 years ago and remains in the exact condition it was in when  lamenated it.) I CLEARLY posted photos so that the buyer would see that the letter was lamanated. However, once the buyer ecieved the letter, he decided it was not as described in the listiing and so he started a return. I have researched complaints and it seems like eBay ALWAYS sides with the buyer. eBay already sent the payment to my bank and it has been sitting there for several days LESS the 13% eBay takes. M

My question is : what should I expect to happen? Will eBay side with buyer and stiff me of 13%? Will eBay refund the buyer with the entire amount and NOT stiff me 13%? Will eBay side with me? This is outrageous.

[chapeau-noir]

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@tobaccocardyahoo wrote:

I strongly suspect that many potential buyers would not know what laminated means.

As a preservation technique, it was always questionable and anathema to all collectors today.

Take the return because you are likely to lose the claim and will have something rather than nothing.

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I'm an old paper collector and laminating hurts my heart.

Yes - speaking as a collector, it has to be very, very clear.  And I would absolutely take the return.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

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I'm an old paper collector and laminating hurts my heart.

Yes - speaking as a collector, it has to be very, very clear.  And I would absolutely take the return.

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For anyone wondering how to protect such a document. The appropriate technique is probably to insert it in a folded mylar sheet.

I would probably insert that in a rigid vinyl protector as well.

I am a collector and dealer in ephemera, now that I don't require money to live on. I also worked in a major research library in my youth, which helped form my attitudes.

[chapeau-noir]

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@tobaccocardyahoo wrote:

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

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I'm an old paper collector and laminating hurts my heart.

Yes - speaking as a collector, it has to be very, very clear.  And I would absolutely take the return.

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For anyone wondering how to protect such a document. The appropriate technique is probably to insert it in a folded mylar sheet.

I would probably insert that in a rigid vinyl protector as well.

I am a collector and dealer in ephemera, now that I don't require money to live on. I also worked in a major research library in my youth, which helped form my attitudes.

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Mylar works very well. I collect 14th through 18th century paper and for anything 15th century onward use folders with a mylar front and an archival paper back. For the 14th century paper I have it framed in archival glass - pre-Gutenberg with different inking styles.

[chapeau-noir]

I meant to say that for NON-collectors, laminating may have seemed like a good idea.

[fanfareplayer]

I strongly disagree that lamination destroys the product. It is designed to preserve a product and this particular letter is in exactly the same condition today as it was when I laminated it myself 18 years ago. There was no other way to preserve it. Paper continues to deteriorate. I don't get why people think the opposite. I am quite confident that this letter will be in exactly the same condition decades from now. Thanks for your reply.

[fanfareplayer]

Thank you all for your comments. I agree that I could have listed it more proficiently, and I agree that it is likely the idiot buyer failed to read the description which I did generate with AI and to which I also inserted the lamination notation. However,  I think it is rediculous to say that lamination destroys the item. It makes absolutely no sense to me. The letter is in exactly the same condition today as it was when I laminated it 18 years ago and I am confident it will remain in that condition for decades to come. I wouldn't list it if I thought otherwise. But anyway, the return was forced by eBay. I spoke with a representative and she said the buyer will get a full refund even though I  only got $592, so eBay pays that 13% difference I was told. 

[adkhighker]

That letter is the type of thing that I've had good luck with here long ago, but not anymore. Nowadays, when I find something as important as that, it goes straight to a reputable auction house that does in-house bidding as well as online bidding. When you get your letter back, you should consider consigning it to such a place, especially one that only accepts high quality consignments.  You won't have to worry about scams or returns from buyers. If any buyer wins an item from their auction and tries to return it, they'll tell the buyer to pound salt.

[chapeau-noir]

I hope that laminate has UV protection.

[lux.ra_14]

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@fanfareplayer wrote:

I strongly disagree that lamination destroys the product.

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That puts you at odds with the Smithsonian, the National Archives, and every other public and private preservationist.

You irreversibly damaged and devalued your item by laminating it. You had a paper letter. Now it's a sheet of thermoplastic with the paper permanently adhered inside. From the preservation department at the University of Illinois:

"Over time however, it was discovered that lamination is in fact destructive. Not only does the application of high heat and pressure damage documents, laminate plastics will also "off-gas," causing a chemical reaction with materials sealed inside. Furthermore, the adhesives used in lamination are typically acidic and can thus adversely affect inks, causing them to bleed beyond their edges ("halo" effect) in printed and written material. Each of these factors cause and/or accelerate the deterioration of paper documents."

[fern*wood]

Did you read the linked article in post #12?  It was quite eye opening.   

If you handled the refund, then ebay will refund your fees.  You lose them if ebay had to step in.

[luckythewinner]

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@fanfareplayer wrote:

 eBay already sent the payment to my bank and it has been sitting there for several days LESS the 13% eBay takes. M

My question is : what should I expect to happen? Will eBay side with buyer and stiff me of 13%? Will eBay refund the buyer with the entire amount and NOT stiff me 13%? Will eBay side with me? This is outrageous.

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If you accept the return ... you will be forced to refund and will lose the cost of shipping both ways. But your fees will be refunded (less 30 cents) and you will hopefully get the letter back.  

If you do not accept the return, chances are very good that ... you will be forced to refund and will lose the cost of shipping. Your fees will not be refunded and you will not get the letter back.  

[fanfareplayer]

Thank you for your comment. There was no heat involved. It was a simple XYRON laminator purchased at Staples. The Smithsonian hasn't seen this letter or the laminating job. If they did they would eat their words. It makes absolutely no sense to me that they would say the item is destroyed. It is preserved.

[powell-memorabilia · Accepted solution]

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@fanfareplayer wrote:

Thank you for your comment. There was no heat involved. It was a simple XYRON laminator purchased at Staples. The Smithsonian hasn't seen this letter or the laminating job. If they did they would eat their words. It makes absolutely no sense to me that they would say the item is destroyed. It is preserved.

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you are spending a lot of energy trying to be right – rather than trying to get it right. Learn from your mistakes, move on.  When we learn from our mistakes is when we start having far fewer of them.

[cozycornertreasures01]

You need to watch Antiques Roadshow. So many ppl bring things to be appraised by leading authorities in the antiquities trade thinking they have a priceless item only to learn their well intended effort to clean, fix and yes preserve their items only made it near worthless or ruined. 

A lot of ppl are giving you good advice, you should take it and move on.

We've all been there and learned as we go. 

Good luck, I wish you much success for the future 

[jerseyboymusic]

@fanfareplayer 

Aside from the lamination discussion (which I am not an authority... if you, as a seller, "don't accept returns", it doesn't matter. Anyone can correct me if I am wrong, but a buyer, to get a free return (without paying return shipping) will just claim "not as described"

Best all around to set up a return policy where the buyer pays