Buyer Circumvented Block - was still allowed to leave negative feedback?

[hkgcwobu]

Hi All,

A buyer who circumvented a block I had on their main account used a secondary account to purchase the cheapest item on my store very clearly with the intent to leave negative feedback. I talked with an ebay representative on the phone and they confirmed it was the same user (same address and last name on their account), and told me it would be okay to cancel the sale and that the buyer would not be able to leave a negative review.

However, the "buyer" ended up leaving a negative review and when I requested feedback removal, I was denied even though the buyer very clearly broke Ebay ToS by circumventing the block on their main account. In fact, even after providing more details to ebay I lost my appeal to have this feedback removed again, with them claiming the buyers experience is legitimate...

It is very wrong to me that ebay will just let any person looking for revenge to leave negative feedback even if they go out of their way to break ToS to do so. I am also bothered that they won't even consider the fact that a customer service rep advised me that it's okay to simply cancel the order, and that there is this previous solved community post stating it's okay to cancel an order with "issue with buyer's address" when you're certain they are circumventing a block.

Has anyone ever had any luck getting negative feedback in this situation removed? I am really shocked that ebay is siding with the "buyer" in my situation... would appreciate any advice if possible and especially if an ebay employee could explain my situation is different from the one linked above : /

[vintagecraze50]

I read it in one of their official posts. Yes they said it.

[vintagecraze50]

I wish I could find that post, but it was stated that they want the sellers to deal with these that way which we always have done anyway.

[vintagecraze50]

I even replied to their post I remember saying that that was always a good idea to do that rather than upset the buyer by removing their feedback, but in SOME cases that may not be sufficient. 

[vintagecraze50]

The problem is how did you even know this person was going to leave a negative? If  it happened right after you cancelled? Then maybe you jumped to conclusions. IDK.

[fern*wood]

I feel ebay has lost control of feedback in general.  They tried to remove unfair ones, but I imagine way too much time was being invested in sellers wanting any bad feedback removed and calling over and over.  I've benefited from a few automatic removals on cases I handled, but I never called in to get this benefit, and frankly, deserved them if I was at fault.

When I heard about the concierge service where sellers enjoyed receiving up to 16 courtesy feedback removals a year, that changed my thinking entirely about feedback.   Feedback was more meaningless than ever in my mind.  I can see many buyers being annoyed at this and voiced their complaints, so ebay being ebay they seem to have pivoted entirely in the opposite direction.   I'm seeing posts now where undeserved feedbacks can't even get removed even if policies are still in place claiming they will be. 

[sin-n-dex]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

The problem is how did you even know this person was going to leave a negative? If  it happened right after you cancelled? Then maybe you jumped to conclusions. IDK.

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I've had a few circumvent... sometimes I go ahead and ship (they're not buying for revenge, they want the item and are circumventing the block to purchase it). It depends on the situation. With the member who keeps getting kicked off, he left me horrible feedback because I wouldn't let him scam me a second time and cancelled. I found out I just have to report him and eBay will take care of him before he leaves any feedback at all.

I had an interesting scam attempt a couple of years ago by another dealer (who was using a US address of a friend or relative). He didn't succeed in scamming, but I blocked the ID (that had lots of feedback). He used his personal account to buy and have me ship to a freight forwarder because I'd blocked the other ID. In this case I shipped because his scam attempt would never work if a freight forwarder was involved.

C.

[sin-n-dex]

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@fern*wood wrote:

I feel ebay has lost control of feedback in general.  They tried to remove unfair ones, but I imagine way too much time was being invested in sellers wanting any bad feedback removed and calling over and over.  I've benefited from a few automatic removals on cases I handled, but I never called in to get this benefit, and frankly, deserved them if I was at fault.

When I heard about the concierge service where sellers enjoyed receiving up to 16 courtesy feedback removals a year, that changed my thinking entirely about feedback.   Feedback was more meaningless than ever in my mind.  I can see many buyers being annoyed at this and voiced their complaints, so ebay being ebay they seem to have pivoted entirely in the opposite direction.   I'm seeing posts now where undeserved feedbacks can't even get removed even if policies are still in place claiming they will be. 

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Concierge doesn't do that anymore, correct?

I've always had to fight to get any FB removed, but if it was deserved I generally worked stuff out with the buyer and they revised. One revised his to a neutral to complain how long the mail takes (to return the item), and eBay removed that because the mail is not in my control.

Some of the negs and neutrals I got were not so bad and probably wouldn't have affected selling ability if people read them (like that a coin was made of a heavy metal, um, duh). Or ones that are positive statements left as neutrals. It still annoys me if people leave those.

C.

[conservitvs]

In addition to using the BBL, record the problem buyer’s shipping address. 

Helps spot those that circumvent the BBL, and allows a seller to cancel due to “problem with buyer’s address.”

Works for some situations (at least for now). 

[mam98031]

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@fern*wood wrote:

I feel ebay has lost control of feedback in general.  They tried to remove unfair ones, but I imagine way too much time was being invested in sellers wanting any bad feedback removed and calling over and over.  I've benefited from a few automatic removals on cases I handled, but I never called in to get this benefit, and frankly, deserved them if I was at fault.

When I heard about the concierge service where sellers enjoyed receiving up to 16 courtesy feedback removals a year, that changed my thinking entirely about feedback.   Feedback was more meaningless than ever in my mind.  I can see many buyers being annoyed at this and voiced their complaints, so ebay being ebay they seem to have pivoted entirely in the opposite direction.   I'm seeing posts now where undeserved feedbacks can't even get removed even if policies are still in place claiming they will be. 

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That program for some sellers, various sizes with a Concierge service was retired a couple of months back, so sellers no longer can have those fb removed unless there is cause.

While I do see some FBs that really should be removed for cause that don't get removed no matter how hard the seller tries, I moreover see FB that do not break policy but understandably upset the seller so the FB doesn't get removed.  

The FB the OP is trying to get removed, IMHO should be removed because the buyer circumvented the block on their original account.  For what that is worth.

[mam98031]

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@conservitvs wrote:

In addition to using the BBL, record the problem buyer’s shipping address. 

Helps spot those that circumvent the BBL, and allows a seller to cancel due to “problem with buyer’s address.”

Works for some situations (at least for now). 

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True, but it does not prevent the problem this OP ran into with the feedback unfortunately.

[conservitvs]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@conservitvs wrote:

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True, but it does not prevent the problem this OP ran into with the feedback unfortunately.

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Does canceling due to “problem with buyer’s address” not negate the buyer’s ability to leave feedback?

[broto_64]

I am guessing here...

First report the buyer, then cancel for reason "problem with address?"
Thou that's tricky too, asking for a defect one way or another, also it's been rumored that even those buyers can leave feedback.

Seems to me as well, having read some of this thread, certain sellers sure are able to draw a lot of conclusions simply from a Buyer ID and a mailing address... Even to the point of foreseeing the future, that's pretty amazing if you ask me. So if I am looking for scammers then scammers I will see everywhere I look?

Hard to say of course, I've certainly had my trouble spots over the years... Things that go beyond annoying, but whether it was malicious or just a trend, hard to say, certainly if it was just a trend it still needed to stop but just because a purchase fits a pattern doesn't necessarily mean it will end a certain way.

I have learned, ship and wait...

If nothing happens, great.

If something else is going on, block and report.

Simple.

No crystal balls.

[mam98031]

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@conservitvs wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@conservitvs wrote:

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True, but it does not prevent the problem this OP ran into with the feedback unfortunately.

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Does canceling due to “problem with buyer’s address” not negate the buyer’s ability to leave feedback?

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No it does not.  Only Cancellations for Non Payment do that.

@conservitvs 

Other terms and related policies

• Once an order has been canceled, it can't be undone
• A seller may be eligible for fee credits for canceled orders
• Buying an item or bidding on an auction on eBay is a commitment to complete a purchase. Buyers should pay for items within 4 calendar days or the seller can choose to cancel the order. If buyers have excessive canceled orders for unpaid items, they may be subject to the consequences outlined in our Unpaid item policy and Abusive buyer policy
• A buyer can still leave feedback on a canceled transaction, unless the order was canceled because they didn't pay for the item. Learn more in our Unpaid item policy
• Canceling an order because the item is out of stock will result in a transaction defect, as sellers are responsible for fulfilling the items they've sold. Learn more about the factors that affect a seller's performance level
• If the buyer has paid and the seller declines or doesn't respond to the buyer's request to cancel, they'll need to wait until the item is received and then start a return request instead

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/order-cancellation-policy?id=5298#:~:tex....

[fern*wood]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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That program for some sellers, various sizes with a Concierge service was retired a couple of months back, so sellers no longer can have those fb removed unless there is cause.

That was my point.  When ebay pivoted away from the courtesy removals they also seemed to have also pivoted away from removing ones that are against the rules, at least according to some recent threads. 

[mam98031]

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@fern*wood wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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That program for some sellers, various sizes with a Concierge service was retired a couple of months back, so sellers no longer can have those fb removed unless there is cause.

That was my point.  When ebay pivoted away from the courtesy removals they also seemed to have also pivoted away from removing ones that are against the rules, at least according to some recent threads. 

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That has not been my experience.  While this particular OP is having an issue, it is a little complicated and I'm hoping we can get some further insight on this early next week as I did tag the Community team late on Friday.

I've participated on a few threads regarding FB removal since Ebay made the change.  Those that had FB that broke one of the policies were successful in getting it removed.  It has been those that the FB didn't break a rule that remained.  That has been my experience so far, others may be different or may have different opinions of what breaks one of the rules and what doesn't.