Buy refused delivery, sort of..... What to do?

[tollerowner]

I shipped a first class package out with free shipping.  It was delivered on 7/8.  It was refused delivery on 7/11!  How do you refuse delivery 3 days after it was delivered?  Could he have opened it?

It was a dog invisible fence collar that isn't compatible with all systems.  I gave full details and told them to check before bidding to be certain it was compatible with their system, specifying that I wasn't responsible if it wasn't.  I am guessing he found out either before getting it, or by trying it, that it wasn't compatible.

I haven't heard anything from anyone about this; only thing I know is on the shipping trace.

Did he lose ebay and paypal protection by not following procedure?  I assume that if there is a problem he had an obligation to contact me first; doesn't he?  Do I have to give him a refund?  

This is just stupid!

[emerald40]

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@tollerowner wrote:

I shipped a first class package out with free shipping.  It was delivered on 7/8.  It was refused delivery on 7/11!  How do you refuse delivery 3 days after it was delivered?  Could he have opened it?

It was a dog invisible fence collar that isn't compatible with all systems.  I gave full details and told them to check before bidding to be certain it was compatible with their system, specifying that I wasn't responsible if it wasn't.  I am guessing he found out either before getting it, or by trying it, that it wasn't compatible.

I haven't heard anything from anyone about this; only thing I know is on the shipping trace.

Did he lose ebay and paypal protection by not following procedure?  I assume that if there is a problem he had an obligation to contact me first; doesn't he?  Do I have to give him a refund?  

This is just stupid!

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He could have received it on the 8th and then brought it back to the Post Office on the 11th and lied by saying he never ordered this and knows nothing about it.

When you receive it back you do need to refund him.  At least you do not have to pay for the shipping back to you.  Buyers do not have to contact you first as it will not void their protection.

[sg51]

He could have received it on the 8th and then brought it back to the Post Office on the 11th and lied by saying he never ordered this and knows nothing about it.

Refusing delivery does not require an explanation.

And as observed, it can be done 3 days after actual delivery.

It does however, at least implicitly, require recipient to claim that the package was not opened.

If it was me, and the stuff came back as shipped, I'd just refund.  If the FVF was substantial, I'd ask buyer to submit an INR.

[*eponymous*]

If what you say is true - that the buyer got "free" shipping - you're not out any money when you issue a refund through eBay cancellation process.  That way, you will get the fvf credit. A full refund has to be issued to get the credit.

Remember, usps is not infallible.  Sometimes, "refused" is mistakenly selected as the reason for non-delivery.

You have your item back and, luckily for you, in the same condition, to resell it, and you owe the buyer a refund. You can't keep both the payment and the item.  Buyer could file with Paypal if you choose not to voluntarily refund.

[88ew]

Deliveries can be "refused" within a few days of delivery if left at door or supposedly signed by someone else although USPS may never return it based on their track record 🙂

I would only refund once returned though if customer did not notify you of a reason for refusal.

[a_c_green]

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@tollerowner wrote:

I shipped a first class package out with free shipping.  It was delivered on 7/8.  It was refused delivery on 7/11!  How do you refuse delivery 3 days after it was delivered?  Could he have opened it?

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He could have opened it, although technically the USPS will only accept it as Refused if it hasn't been opened. Visual inspection is not necessarily going to tell them if that's happened, given how messy a lot of packages look in the first place, so they pretty much have to take the recipient's word for it that they're refusing it unopened. 

As for the 3 days in between delivery and refusal, that doesn't mean much as far as whether they opened it. Some people just can't get back to the post office right away after finding the unwanted package on their porch.

Whether you're going to get it back promptly is kind of a gamble. If you check the tracking, you may see it reversing direction once or twice before it reaches you, because you're counting on workers actually noticing the scribbled or stamped "Refused/Return to Sender" notations on the box, and sorting it for its Return address rather than its much bigger Ship To address on the label.

[llllady]

Here is eBay's Money Back Guarantee policy:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

It reads, in part:

Generally, the buyer is responsible for accepting the item when it arrives. If the buyer refuses delivery, their claim is not eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee.

Exceptions:

• The buyer can provide, via written proof from the carrier, that they refused the package because it arrived empty or was damaged in shipping

• The buyer accepted and opened the package only to determine that it was an empty box

• The item arrived COD because it didn't have enough postage on it

Technically, the buyer has given up their right to a claim under eBay's Money Back Guarantee.  Don't hold your breath.

[Anonymous]

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@llllady wrote:

Here is eBay's Money Back Guarantee policy:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

It reads, in part:

Generally, the buyer is responsible for accepting the item when it arrives. If the buyer refuses delivery, their claim is not eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee.

Exceptions:

• The buyer can provide, via written proof from the carrier, that they refused the package because it arrived empty or was damaged in shipping

• The buyer accepted and opened the package only to determine that it was an empty box

• The item arrived COD because it didn't have enough postage on it

Technically, the buyer has given up their right to a claim under eBay's Money Back Guarantee.  Don't hold your breath.

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YUP.... technically the buyer has lost their claim for an item not received, but MAY still be able to claim a SNAD.

[tollerowner]

I appreciate your help on all this; but it just doesn't seem right.  

She won the auction and has an obligation to follow through.

I did everything right, yet I get screwed.

I know, I know...   you don't write the rules; you just tell me what they are.

[tollerowner]

It just got more interesting.  It was delivered to the buyer again.  Maybe she will be decent this time.  Probably not.