eBay

wildlandff05 · ‎12-21-2018

First time posting on this forum. I've been using eBay for quite some time now. Mostly just using it as an online garge sale of sorts. I don't sell anything regularly.

Anyways, I sold an iPhone about a month back. The buyer couldn't activate it for whatever reason, and wanted to return. I accepted returns on the phone so it was auto-approved. She then proceeds to send me several rapid fire emails about not being able to print the return. She goes to the PO and sends the phone out, then sends me a few more saying something about an inability to add the tracking number.

Several days go by, and I don't have the phone. I find out she sent it to the wrong address, and it was returned to sender. She gets the phone back, then sends it off again - to another incorrect address. This time it shows it's delivered (to Colorado, I'm in Wisconsin). Since the phone was "delivered", she wants a refund.

I wasn't going to issue a refund until I had the phone in my hand. I sent her a message saying exactly that. Several days go by without a response - so I report the buyer (first time I've ever done that).

2 days go by - and I haven't heard anything back from eBay. Then all of a sudden, she opens a case against me. 15 minutes later the case is closed, and eBay rules in her favor. The refund is automatically withdrawn from my Paypal account. So now I'm without the phone, and the money.

I called eBay and submitted an appeal. They said it was my fault for providing an incorrect address - which, upon double checking in my profile, was indeed correct. I updated it on my end just to make sure it stuck in the system. eBay can see I updated the address after the fact, and that's the deciding factor here.

Like I said above, I don't use eBay all that often - eBay's fees are through the roof - but this is ridiculous. I feel like I just got robbed. Buyer's have a ridiculous amount of power in these transactions, and my hands are completely tied. The eBay agent I spoke with said I could report it to the Internet Crime Complain Center.

Any ideas here? I just spoke with another agent and they're going to look at the case again. I already know they're going to rule in favor of the buyer, but figured I'd take one more shot at it.

creekcoyote · ‎12-21-2018

@wildlandff05 wrote:
Thanks for chiming in.

I get that this is a confusing situation, and I hope you can understand my frustration. I updated my profile in it's entirety when I moved last summer. Shipping address, return address, registration address, etc. After the initial mix up with the buyer returning the phone to my previous address, I went into the system to confirm that it was a mix up on my part. This is the frustrating part for me...the address on file was correct. I only reason it'll show that I updated the address after the buyer already started the return is because I re-submitted the correct address. That's it. I realize there's no way for me to prove this, so I guess I just have to accept the fact that I'm now without both the phone and the money.

For those that commented, I'm not saying this is 100% on the buyer, nor 100% on eBay. The buyer tried to return the phone, but due to a very odd error, sent it to the wrong address. I tried working with her to resolve the situation - in which she complicated matters by sending me multiple tracking numbers to different destinations. I asked eBay to intervene (again, the first time I've ever done so) so I could get some clarification on this confusing situation. I never heard back. Buyer opens a case and is immediately refunded.

So hopefully you can understand where I'm coming from here. I did my best to straighten this out without involving eBay. Even sending the buyer a message with the correct address. I don't know what else I could have done.

Knowing E-bay has an occasional problem with glitches, it is entirely possible that your old address was given as the return address. Even though you did have the correct address on file.

Do you use E-bay's shipping labels? If so, the bottom half, if you kept it, would indicate your address, that the buyer received, on the package.

The other possibility is that this IS buyer fraud and that they deliberately found your old address somewhere and sent the return there. Then in order to completely mislead they sent something to Colorado. Could have been an empty box or whatever.

Good luck with getting a better outcome.

COYOTES RULE!!!

castlemagicmemories · ‎12-21-2018

Furthermore, if you have never lived in CO, where the buyer sent something, I grow suspicious!

Yes.

castlemagicmemories · ‎12-21-2018

I wonder if it was possible that the return label pulled up the wrong address initially.

Anonymous · ‎12-21-2018

@wildlandff05 wrote:

Thanks for chiming in.

I get that this is a confusing situation, and I hope you can understand my frustration. I updated my profile in it's entirety when I moved last summer. Shipping address, return address, registration address, etc. After the initial mix up with the buyer returning the phone to my previous address, I went into the system to confirm that it was a mix up on my part. This is the frustrating part for me...the address on file was correct. I only reason it'll show that I updated the address after the buyer already started the return is because I re-submitted the correct address. That's it. I realize there's no way for me to prove this, so I guess I just have to accept the fact that I'm now without both the phone and the money.

For those that commented, I'm not saying this is 100% on the buyer, nor 100% on eBay. The buyer tried to return the phone, but due to a very odd error, sent it to the wrong address. I tried working with her to resolve the situation - in which she complicated matters by sending me multiple tracking numbers to different destinations. I asked eBay to intervene (again, the first time I've ever done so) so I could get some clarification on this confusing situation. I never heard back. Buyer opens a case and is immediately refunded.

So hopefully you can understand where I'm coming from here. I did my best to straighten this out without involving eBay. Even sending the buyer a message with the correct address. I don't know what else I could have done.

Hi @wildlandff05, we actually have a record of all address changes with timestamps and can review what was on file before and after any updates you make. While I can't go into detail regarding your account information, I can confirm that the address provided to the buyer in the return request was the return address you had at that time. Any updates you made afterward would not have changed this, nor would it have caused any confusion on our end as we can see when you make changes and what information is changed.

Totally understand how frustrating this can be, but I do still encourage you to confirm that all four addresses on your account are up to date to avoid any future issues and I recommend you contact your buyer to work out return steps once they receive the item that is on it's way back to them.

wildlandff05 · ‎12-21-2018

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here.

I'm sure everything is correct on your side of things. Looking back I should have taken a screenshot of my profile page to prove it was correct on my end. Why would I waste my time calling customer support and then posting on this forum if it wasn't?

But for a moment we'll say I was seeing things, and my old address was indeed in the system. The package was sent to the incorrect address and returned to sender. So in eBay's mind a return attempt was made, and that's sufficient to receive an automatic refund?

The buyer contacted me after that - I supplied the correct address - and it was shipped to an entirely different state - of which I've never been a resident. The tracking number shows it was delivered, and it's the number that shows up in the return. Again, I don't have the phone.

lacemaker3 · ‎12-21-2018

@wildlandff05 wrote:
...

... my old address was indeed in the system. The package was sent to the ... address [on file] and returned to sender. So in eBay's mind a return attempt was made, and that's sufficient to receive an automatic refund?

...

Yes, if the buyer sent the package back to the return address that was on file, and there is an delivery scan or an attempted delivery, or an out-for-delivery scan to the address that was on file, that is proof that the buyer did send the package back to the return address that was on file.

That is all that eBay requires the buyer to be able to prove. Similarly, when the seller has sent an item to the buyer's shipping address on file, this is all that eBay requires the seller to be able to prove.

Whatever may have happened after the item could not be delivered to the return address on file, doesn't really change the situation. I'm very sorry that this hasn't worked out for you.

vintagecraze50 · ‎12-21-2018

So sorry this happened. The problem could have been prevented by updating your account prior to selling the item. It appears there was an incorrect ship back address and the buyer did their due diligence sending the item back, except it went to another prior address on your account? If so, Is there a way to retrieve the package at that address?

vintagecraze50 · ‎12-21-2018

Maybe the seller could have mistakenly even entered an address that somehow went to another state. I have done some really wild things like that when I am tired and hit the wrong keystrokes like I do here sometimes with misspelling words.

goodluckselling · ‎12-21-2018

You have to understand many of the users who have participated in this thread come here every day, for the chance to really help another user like yourself.

I can say and I think I might have already but I can say I do not recall any one else saying they have had this exact problem you are describing. This is why we are trying to suggest as kindly as we can that perhaps your timeline of when you verified your correct address was indeed in place when the actual transaction took place are not correct?

The second shipment from the buyer has no value in eBay's ruling on the request that got escalated into a case and eventually decided in favor of the buyer. Many seller with any kind of expereince would already know this and I am sorry you the OP did not realize this but it is not unknown in any way for sellers who keep up to date on how things work here at eBay.

I suggested earlier on this thread for you to make sure some of your default addresses were also correct, and I do not recall you mentioning you have checked them but I assume you read the post and considered it to be a wise actions?

Further more Trinton@ebay who I consider a very fair eBay staff member has given you several posts which is filled worh answers to your questions. I do not speak for any eBay staff but I do understand when someone is telling me the events are not as you are describing.

Look we get it. I can gaurantee you many of us have made very similar errors in our ebay careers. We get it. We probably also ridiculed eBay just as we see you doing.

We are just saying we have enough experience in reading between the lines to understand the possible errors and knowing very well how ebay works along with the historical problems eBay has been known for and this is not one of them.

eBay staff has verified as far as I can understand that your addresses are not up to date and perhaps a private message to you would help you understand this moving forward?

Please continue to review the forum for more info, learning and also teaching what you have learned. Your character in this thread is a favorable one and we would welcome your input.

Good Luck Selling!

gramophone-georg · ‎12-21-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
@wildlandff05 wrote:

The buyer originally returned it to my valid old address (again, it showed my current address in the system).

The buyer sent me two tracking numbers. One with my valid old address, and another with a Colorado address. I don't know if they sent it to CO after it was returned to them. I was confused by it and asked the buyer to clarify. They never did.

So the one tracking # shows a delivery was attempted at my old address - then returned to sender. The second # shows it was delivered to the phantom address in CO.
eBay's decision to give the buyer a refund was more than likely just decided on the first return tracking number. That info is actually enough for them to rule in favor of the buyer.

I would concentrate on that info when you call them again, if indeed you plan to pursue this any farther.

You probably need to be sure that your info is update and correct since this has happened to your account once already.

I actually do not recall any other sellers with the problem you are describing? The problem being you are 100% sure you had the correct return address but somehow the buyer got your old address instead.

Good Luck Selling!

@goodluckselling wrote:
@wildlandff05 wrote:

The buyer originally returned it to my valid old address (again, it showed my current address in the system).

The buyer sent me two tracking numbers. One with my valid old address, and another with a Colorado address. I don't know if they sent it to CO after it was returned to them. I was confused by it and asked the buyer to clarify. They never did.

So the one tracking # shows a delivery was attempted at my old address - then returned to sender. The second # shows it was delivered to the phantom address in CO.
eBay's decision to give the buyer a refund was more than likely just decided on the first return tracking number. That info is actually enough for them to rule in favor of the buyer.

I would concentrate on that info when you call them again, if indeed you plan to pursue this any farther.

You probably need to be sure that your info is update and correct since this has happened to your account once already.

I actually do not recall any other sellers with the problem you are describing? The problem being you are 100% sure you had the correct return address but somehow the buyer got your old address instead.

Good Luck Selling!

How? It wasn't the same address it shipped from and the return was NOT successful.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".

gramophone-georg · ‎12-21-2018

OP- Someone asked upstream if the buyer initiated the return through eBay or PayPal.

If I missed your answer I apologize, but I didn't see this addressed and it's important.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".

goodluckselling · ‎12-22-2018

@gramophone-georg wrote:
eBay's decision to give the buyer a refund was more than likely just decided on the first return tracking number. That info is actually enough for them to rule in favor of the buyer.

Good Luck Selling!

How? It wasn't the same address it shipped from and the return was NOT successful.

This answer was already established by eBay staff in this thread post #28

eBay would only look at tracking information that shows delivery, attempted delivery or delivery unavailable in the location listed for the return as grounds for a refund to be issued.

Good Luck Selling!