Bayer scam

[yardeyarde]

The buyer purchased a mobile phone for $450. I shipped the via USPS item. After five days, the buyer requested a return, claiming that the phone’s battery overheats and the frame is damaged, even though the phone was in perfect condition. The buyer asked for a refund and and have  to return the item.

I agreed and go with return process. However, on the same day, eBay accepted the buyer’s “new arguments” and allowed them to keep my item while charging me the full price of the product.

The buyer kept the phone, which was in perfect condition, and received a full refund for it. All of this happened without my knowledge, and the case was closed within one day.

My losses:

• Pixel 9+ phone

• $450

• eBay fees

This is theft.

The buyer had good reviews, but all of them were written within one month, and the account was created just a month ago.

How can I fight against such scams?

[chienoir]

I misspoke about the return policy - It 'is' my policy about damages but I do not actually state it in my listings. However, I will state that about damages to an eBay agent if a dispute arises from an unscrupulous buyer. What I meant to say is that I have ALL my listings set to "seller does not accept returns" as my policy, and my personal opinion is that allowing returns is generally inviting trouble.

I did NOT suggest posting "(BEWARE OF THIS BUYER!)" as a response to negative, retributive feedback. Just state your true facts calmly and hope that other potential buyers can recognize the retributive nature of the mean spirited buyer. In fact, it also does help to thank other satisfied buyers who subsequently leave positive feedback for their kind words. Do that in a reply to them when they leave positive feedback. That helps overcome the lingering negative feedback, as it illustrates that the problem does not lie with you as a seller.

[mam98031]

@chienoir 

Even with a no return policy, Ebay does require you process INADs.  You can certainly tell the buyer you will not take the return, that you certainly can do, but then you will be required to refund the buyer either by choice or by Ebay forcing it in most cases.

The return policies options are as follows.

1. No Returns
2. 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
3. 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
4. 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
5. 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns
6. 14 Day returns in certain categories

With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request.  Or if they want to, they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping.  If the seller so chooses, they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.

On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return.  Plus, if the seller so chooses, they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they use options 4 or 5 as their return policy.

On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns.  If a seller that has either of those policies, they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return.  A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping].  Also, Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below.  In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.

ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception.  Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.

All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!

14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.

For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.

[yardeyarde]

I would like to provide an update.

On December 30, I reached out to customer support via Facebook. I described the situation in detail and asked for assistance in resolving it.

I provided information about the buyer, mentioning that his account was created only a month ago and, despite this, he has 25 reviews with 5-star ratings.

I asked customer support to review the buyer’s account and the evidence he provided claiming the phone was hazardous.

Additionally, I informed them that the phone was only two months old and still under the manufacturer’s warranty. I also noted that the buyer’s contact phone number was not working and appeared to be fake.

The customer support team responded promptly. They issued a refund to me and 31 December payout was sent directly to my bank account! 

In other words, justice was restored.

This is fantastic news for me right before the New Year and a great example that, despite everything, eBay’s customer support handled the situation professionally.

Thank you all for the advice you shared in this thread. It was very helpful!

[niknak65]

That is wonderful news, justice was served and the scammer can do nothing due to the scammer discovery

[ittybitnot]

@yardeyarde 

Thank you for the update!  It is most appreciated. 

[ampgroup2021]

Good for you, congratulations, and well done.

[mrdeece]

This is a Horror.   What is "new arguments"??  The whole mess seems to revolve around this and I have never heard of it.

I offer FREE shipping and FREE returns.  I have a no questions asked return policy.  Return the item and when I get it back in the condition it was sent I issue a refund.

[ittybitnot]

I offer FREE shipping and FREE returns.

@mrdeece 

A "free return" label in this instance would likely be ONLY from the Delaware (US) freight forwarder back to the OP.  The buyer is NOT in the US, but has a US address from which parcels are then forwarded to the buyer's country.  With slight variations from time to time, the scenario posted by @yardeyarde  is nothing new, and has been a great way for buyers to get products for free at the seller's expense for years. 

That is why everyone is so happy that eBay helped the seller in this instance.  

[mrdeece]

I do Not sell outside the US so I hope not to enjoy this type of glitch.  eBay really should fix this for those who do.

[fashunu4eeuh]

@chienoir  wrote: “In your listings, state that you don't accept returns unless the buyer can prove actual damage...”

eBay does not require a buyer to supply proof when a Not As Described claim is opened.

So including such verbiage in one’s TOS may serve little purpose; it cannot be enforced.

In general, i would hesitate to add any such negative or challenging statements to a listing.  They could suggest there is anticipatory concern that a problem will arise with the transaction. There is enough existing stress to go around without borrowing additional worry.

[mam98031]

I'm very happy to hear your update.  It made no sense that the phone was not considered hazardous when you shipped it out but it was considered hazardous to ship it back.  That wasn't even logical.  Hopefully the CSR that handled the buyer's complaint and cause the item to be refunded back to the buyer is getting some needed training so they don't make this mistake twice.

It is great to hear your year ending on a VERY GOOD NOTE !!!

Happy New Year!!

[mam98031]

---

@mrdeece wrote:

This is a Horror.   What is "new arguments"??  The whole mess seems to revolve around this and I have never heard of it.

I offer FREE shipping and FREE returns.  I have a no questions asked return policy.  Return the item and when I get it back in the condition it was sent I issue a refund.

---

That was not the OP's issue.  The OP had a CSR approve the full refund to a buyer with no return needed because they did not understand the hazardous material policy well enough to make this call.

https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/shipping/preparing-your-shipment/know-what-qualifies-as-hazmat

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/hazardous-materials-policy?id=4335

[mam98031]

---

@mrdeece wrote:

I do Not sell outside the US so I hope not to enjoy this type of glitch.  eBay really should fix this for those who do.

---

You can't control this completely.  None of us can.  If an international buyer wants to purchase something from you and has a primary ship to address as a USA address, the sale will go through.  These are often, but not all, buyers having the seller ship to a Freight Forwarder.  Typically not a problem with most transactions, but sometimes the buyer misbehaves, like they did for this seller.  It isn't the Freight Forwarders fault at all, it is all on the Buyer.

[moon_goddess_emporium]

Yes, here's all these Scammers need to do.

Create a CC chargeback.  That's it.  The end.

Top-Rated Seller?  Doesn't matter.  26 years on ebay & Scammer just signed up?  Doesn't matter.

Dealing with this now.  I provided return shipping to Scammer.  Ebay told him to return the item.

Because it's a Scammer, he's like, "No, I want to keep it.  But not pay for it."

The solution?  Just create a CC Chargeback!

Yep.  So far, ebay has stolen the money from me for the Return, the Return Shipping, & now for the CC Chargeback.  Then allowed him to leave nonsense Negative feedback for me.

Top-Rated Seller?  Means Nothing.  Seller Protections?  Nope.  Ebay has become a total Scam.

[mam98031]

@moon_goddess_emporium 

The feedback was removed as you know, but the negative mark was left.  You need to contact Ebay to resolve this and get the designations removed.

The TRS program has NEVER meant to you special consideration when a buyer has a complaint or concern.  There has never been anything in the rules that state this.  So you are expecting something from Ebay they have NEVER said they would give us in the first place, so you will forever be disappointed on this.

As to the shipping label you issued the buyer.  You do NOT get charged for that unless the buyer actually uses it.

How and why did Ebay tell him to return the item?  Was there an INAD opened in Ebay?  If so is it still open?  When was it opened?  Has it closed in your favor because the buyer did not return the item?  If it hasn't, then this is something you want to contact Ebay and talk with them about, since you are now saying the buyer created a Chargeback with their financial institution.

Because a buyer filed a Chargeback doesn't mean they automatically win it.  You do have a chance to submit evidence for why they should not.

I would contact Ebay FIRST to find out the status of the INAD since the buyer has now filed a Chargeback.  That is important to know as the INAD should close in the Seller's favor.  This information should be submitted as evidence on the Chargeback.  That the INAD was closed in your favor due to the buyer not complying by not returning the product.

Other evidence to submit would be the tracking and any messages the buyer sent you and your responses.

Ebay has NOT "stolen" a darn thing from you.  You just need a better understanding of the process.  Funds on Hold should not be considered as Ebay stealing from you.  It is still your money, it is simply on hold until this matter is resolved.

The TRS program has NEVER offered you or anyone else Seller Protection.  That is not what the program is about.  You appear to want to blame Ebay because you don't know how to actually fight this issue.  That is not Ebay's fault.  You need to know what you can and can't do.  I would recommend moving away from this state of mind, open up your mind so you can be receptive to the ways in which you can fight this.  It is up to you, you are the only one that can fight this.

In Post #9 on this thread I give all the ways in which you can contact Ebay.  I would suggest Facebook for the better trained CSRs.