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Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

Attention Fellow Sellers:

 

Keep your eyes on your Paypal accounts, your email accounts, and your ebay mail.

 

Today I received a notice from ebay stating that one of the packages I shipped out over a week ago had an incorrect shipping label attached and that the USPS charged an additional $4.89 to my paypal account.

 

Now then, here is the long and short of it in detail...... shipped a few trading cards in a 6x9 bubble mailer and it weighed 2 ounces (1.9 ounces according to the scale at the local USPS office where I dropped it off).  I marked the shipping label as being 4 ounces as I always allow an extra ounce or two on all my packages.  Besides, 1 to 4 ounces in a bubble mailer all cost the exact same amount of money to ship regardless of the weight you put on it between 1 and 4 ounces.

 

In any event, paid the 1st class postage fee, slapped on the label, took it to the post office to be shipped, they weighed it, and it shipped with no issues.

 

Now today, 5 days after the package was received by the buyer, I get the email from eBay stating the USPS deemed the package's label to be incorrect and slapped a PRIORITY MAIL label on it and charged me the extra $4.89 for which I can jump through hoops to dispute it with the USPS to get my $ back.

 

Seems to me that there is absolutely no way they could have done this by error.  Seems like a direct ploy to just charge your account an extra fee with the hopes that you do not notice or do not care because you are too busy doing other things.  

 

So then..... I am alerting all other sellers to watch out for this as you could be losing $$$ you work hard to earn all because the USPS is randomly overcharging you for a service you did not receive or ask for.

 

Bottom line..... Sellers Beware!

Message 1 of 48
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47 REPLIES 47

Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

I can explain what happened to you. The post office has a very stupid rule that first class envelops MUST be 3/4” thick somewhere or the package MUST go priority mail.  I got caught more than 10 years ago.  I keep a box of rolled up bubble wrap balls to insert in the envelop whenever I use an envelop to ship a small item like a Gi joe gun. Just take some bubble wrap, make a little ball , tape it and keep them handy.  

Message 16 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

just happened to me with 2 medium flat rate boxes and I was charged almost $16 extra. Sad. In 23 years we have never made a postage mistake and now I expect rip offs by PO often.

Message 17 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

Yep. But what I'm not sure about is the flexibility and uniformity criteria.

The APV system can weigh the pkg, and measure it with lasers, and maybe uniformity, but I don't see any reasonable way to determine flexibility at high speed.

Let's say the system weighed it and found it to be 3oz. OK fine. Maybe qualifies as First Class Mail or First Class Pkg. Then it measures the pkg and determines its L and W are not under or over any First Class limits. So far so good. But it sees a thickness under 3/4" (let's say 1/2") and says "unless this pkg is non-uniform in thickness (lumpy), or is rigid (fails the flexibility criteria), it's a First Class Mail Flat". (and a FCM Flat with a FCP label is a no-no and re-rates as Priority Mail).

I wonder if the APV system has high speed sorting based on that data, and kicks such a pkg off to the side for a human to put eyes on - human bends it, sees if it is uniform, determines flat or pkg, pushes a "yea" or "nay" button, and tosses it back in the stream. Theoretically could also do the same for Media Mail pkgs where volumetric weight is low (big box weighs little - not a box of books, maybe clothing?) for inspection and evaluation.

All I know is that the description of the shipped pkg along with the numbers (the FCP cost, PM cost, and difference) align perfectly for the FCM Flat → PM rerate scenario.
Message 18 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

>>The post office has a very stupid rule that first class envelops MUST be 3/4” thick
>>somewhere or the package MUST go priority mail

No, the rules are that First Class PACKAGES need to be 3/4" thick, non-uniform, or fail the flat flexibility test. Big difference.

You can ship 3/8" thick, bubble mailers all day long as packages if they are rigid or lumpy.
Message 19 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

First class can be anything up to 15.9 ounces.  Those are the rules of First Class Mail.

Message 20 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

$2.76 was what Ebay's USPS cost was.

Message 21 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

Been shipping packages through the USPS for over 25 years.... Pretty sure I know what and how the shipping works. 🙂  

 

Message 22 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

Thanks for your thoughts.  However, it is a mistake on the USPS's end..... you don't bump 2 ounces up to Priority Mail costs regardless of where the Zone is.  

Message 23 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

I have disputed it as well with the email address ebay provided.   I am handling it like this for now..... I will wait out the 15 days and see if the USPS responds to me and refunds me the $.  If not, and it happens again, I will contact my atty, for which she will more than likely be more than happy to file a Class Action Lawsuit considering the level of fraud that could be involved by the USPS.  This is not just an Ebay seller thing, as it affects every single label printed across the board unless you are taking it to the post office and paying them right there.

 

Save your receipts my friends..... the ones from when you take your packages to the post office and drop them off. They are the only proof you have that your packages weigh exactly what you state they weigh.

Message 24 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers


@berserkerplanet wrote:
It sounds more like it is not a glitch, that this is user error, and OP is shipping FCM flats with FCP labels on them - which doesn't fly - they get bumped to Priority in that case.

6.9 bubble mailer with a couple of cards in it - likely less than 3/4" thick, is uniform, and is flexible - that is a flat and does not qualify as a package.

4oz shipment to zone 5:
FCP = $2.76 gets bumped to 1 lb PM = $7.65 → difference = $4.89 which is what OP was upcharged.

Okay.... you are wrong... 100% wrong!!  I have been shipping for over 25 years and can say without a doubt.... you are again.... 100% wrong!   Wherever you are getting your information from.... it is 100% wrong.    

Message 25 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers


@ms.rodriguez* wrote:

I can explain what happened to you. The post office has a very stupid rule that first class envelops MUST be 3/4” thick somewhere or the package MUST go priority mail.  I got caught more than 10 years ago.  I keep a box of rolled up bubble wrap balls to insert in the envelop whenever I use an envelop to ship a small item like a Gi joe gun. Just take some bubble wrap, make a little ball , tape it and keep them handy.  


Unfortunately...... this theory does not apply.  Every single package that goes out from me is at least 3/4 to 4 inches in thickness.   Packing peanuts in the envelopes work like a charm to achieve this.   USPS is just ripping me off as I am sure they have been doing to many others.  

Message 26 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

>>Okay.... you are wrong... 100% wrong!! I have been shipping for over 25 years and can say without a doubt....
>>you are again.... 100% wrong! Wherever you are getting your information from.... it is 100% wrong.

I've been shipping for 35 years, know what I'm doing, and the information comes from the USPS Domestic Mail Manual.

Carry on as you have been, and continue to have problems.
Message 27 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

Also,  just to throw this out there..... Many of the responses here are hooked on the stupid rule of 3/4" package thickness.   This is 100% true if you are using a normal "paper" envelope.  Be it  4x6, 6x9, 11x14, etc..... then the 3/4" rule applies.

 

However, and in my case, the "paper" envelope 3/4" rule does not apply.... because ALL bubble mailers are considered "parcels", not "flats".    It does not matter what the thickness of the bubble mailer is, it is a parcel according to Post Masters all over the USA.  Due to the envelopes being lined with bubble wrap, regardless of the outer layer, be it paper or plastic, it is automatically deemed a parcel.

 

One of the main reasons (possibly the exact reason, I am not quite sure, since I never actually asked) this is done this way is because bubble mailers are not passed through any kind of sorting machine and are automatically hand sorted as parcels.  The reason behind this is many.  One being that bubble mailers get jammed in the sorting machines and are a **bleep** to retrieve.  Not to mention the time involved in stopping the progression of mail being sorted by that machine to retrieve the bubble mailer from it due to it jamming the machine.  Time is $ and $ is time is the theory applied.   Thus why before there was "online" mailing and printing, all bubble mailers were charged a "non-machinable" fee as soon as the postal employee saw the mailer.  Since about 2012 the fee was dropped because it was built right into the "parcel" pricing.

 

As I have stated before, I have been shipping for a quarter of a century and know the rules pretty good.  I am not a USPS employee, but having been shipping packages for as long as I have and having had to literally go to the post office to ship them for years before "online" shipping became a thing, I was taught pretty well by many postal employees the in's and out's of the shipping rules and regulations.  I have dealt with everyone from local postal employees, to regional and national post masters on the rules and regulations as well as having helped them in several instances bring down undesirables in mail fraud schemes.  So just because I may sell mostly trading cards, does not mean I have not been well and formally educated in the USPS shipping system.  

 

I still like to believe that my package was pulled and I was charged in error and the USPS will indeed correct the matter.  If not, I will take the needed steps necessary to get to the bottom of the issue.  I thought that by bringing my experience to my fellow ebay sellers that it may bring the situation to your attention and thus you could be on the look out for the same thing happening to you.  As it has been stated on this thread, apparently some of you have already been the victim of the same thing and no resolve or explanation came of it.  I know many who work for the USPS and because of that, I would like to believe the glitches in the system will be fixed so that nobody has to deal with this type of thing.

Message 28 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers


@berserkerplanet wrote:
>>Okay.... you are wrong... 100% wrong!! I have been shipping for over 25 years and can say without a doubt....
>>you are again.... 100% wrong! Wherever you are getting your information from.... it is 100% wrong.

I've been shipping for 35 years, know what I'm doing, and the information comes from the USPS Domestic Mail Manual.

Carry on as you have been, and continue to have problems.

Thank you for your arrogance and "know it all" attitude.   Been shipping these packages for 25 years and this is the FIRST problem.  So then know it all..... what does your manual say about that?  As I stated to you before, you are 100% wrong when it comes to this particular situation.

 

If you care to be educated in the difference between a flat, a parcel, and what happens when a bubble mailer is involved, then I suggest you read my most recent post where it is explained.   I am not going to get into a pissing match with you over it.  I know what rules apply and do not apply because I am very well educated in the shipping system.   

 

My suggestion to you would be to take a kinder approach in future responses to anyone's questions because coming off arrogant only causes others to lose any and all respect they may have for you.

 

Thank you  for your time and thoughts as they were appreciated.

Message 29 of 48
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Re: Automated Package Verification Ripping Off Sellers

>>However, and in my case, the "paper" envelope 3/4" rule does not apply.... because ALL bubble mailers are considered
>>"parcels", not "flats". It does not matter what the thickness of the bubble mailer is, it is a parcel according to Post >>Masters all over the USA. Due to the envelopes being lined with bubble wrap, regardless of the outer layer, be it paper
>>or plastic, it is automatically deemed a parcel.

Nope. Not anywhere in the DMM = not the rule. A kraft or poly bubble mailer under 3/4" thick that meets the other size requirements, and the flexibility and uniformity (+/- 1/4") requirements is a retail flat not a parcel.

DMM trumps uninformed Postmaster opinion.

>>One of the main reasons (possibly the exact reason, I am not quite sure, since I never actually asked) this is done this way
>>is because bubble mailers are not passed through any kind of sorting machine and are automatically hand sorted as
>>parcels.

Nope. Not anywhere in the DMM = not the rule. Retail flats have no non-machinable criteria (they are automatically machinable by the definition of a flat), and if a PO chooses to toss a flat mailpiece in the non-machinable or parcel stream, it does not make that flat a package.
Message 30 of 48
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