08-10-2021 03:17 PM
The questions on the 1099 issuance that is coming in 2022 and for some is already here depending on what state you live in. I thought I would post the link to the IRS guidelines on how to determine if you are selling as a business or doing it as a hobby. There is some ambiguity in the language as there are with many tax laws but it should give you a starting point.
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/hobby-or-business-irs-offers-tips-to-decide
08-10-2021 03:28 PM - edited 08-10-2021 03:30 PM
(1) Manner in which the taxpayer carries on the activity. The fact that the taxpayer carries on the activity in a businesslike manner and maintains complete and accurate books and records may indicate that the activity is engaged in for profit. Similarly, where an activity is carried on in a manner substantially similar to other activities of the same nature which are profitable, a profit motive may be indicated. A change of operating methods, adoption of new techniques or abandonment of unprofitable methods in a manner consistent with an intent to improve profitability may also indicate a profit motive.
(2) The expertise of the taxpayer or his advisors. Preparation for the activity by extensive study of its accepted business, economic, and scientific practices, or consultation with those who are expert therein, may indicate that the taxpayer has a profit motive where the taxpayer carries on the activity in accordance with such practices. Where a taxpayer has such preparation or procures such expert advice, but does not carry on the activity in accordance with such practices, a lack of intent to derive profit may be indicated unless it appears that the taxpayer is attempting to develop new or superior techniques which may result in profits from the activity.
(3) The time and effort expended by the taxpayer in carrying on the activity. The fact that the taxpayer devotes much of his personal time and effort to carrying on an activity, particularly if the activity does not have substantial personal or recreational aspects, may indicate an intention to derive a profit. A taxpayer's withdrawal from another occupation to devote most of his energies to the activity may also be evidence that the activity is engaged in for profit. The fact that the taxpayer devotes a limited amount of time to an activity does not necessarily indicate a lack of profit motive where the taxpayer employs competent and qualified persons to carry on such activity.
(4) Expectation that assets used in activity may appreciate in value. The term profit encompasses appreciation in the value of assets, such as land, used in the activity. Thus, the taxpayer may intend to derive a profit from the operation of the activity, and may also intend that, even if no profit from current operations is derived, an overall profit will result when appreciation in the value of land used in the activity is realized since income from the activity together with the appreciation of land will exceed expenses of operation. See, however, paragraph (d) of §1.183-1 for definition of an activity in this connection.
(5) The success of the taxpayer in carrying on other similar or dissimilar activities. The fact that the taxpayer has engaged in similar activities in the past and converted them from unprofitable to profitable enterprises may indicate that he is engaged in the present activity for profit, even though the activity is presently unprofitable.
(6) The taxpayer's history of income or losses with respect to the activity. A series of losses during the initial or start-up stage of an activity may not necessarily be an indication that the activity is not engaged in for profit. However, where losses continue to be sustained beyond the period which customarily is necessary to bring the operation to profitable status such continued losses, if not explainable, as due to customary business risks or reverses, may be indicative that the activity is not being engaged in for profit. If losses are sustained because of unforeseen or fortuitous circumstances which are beyond the control of the taxpayer, such as drought, disease, fire, theft, weather damages, other involuntary conversions, or depressed market conditions, such losses would not be an indication that the activity is not engaged in for profit. A series of years in which net income was realized would of course be strong evidence that the activity is engaged in for profit.
(7) The amount of occasional profits, if any, which are earned. The amount of profits in relation to the amount of losses incurred, and in relation to the amount of the taxpayer's investment and the value of the assets used in the activity, may provide useful criteria in determining the taxpayer's intent. An occasional small profit from an activity generating large losses, or from an activity in which the taxpayer has made a large investment, would not generally be determinative that the activity is engaged in for profit. However, substantial profit, though only occasional, would generally be indicative that an activity is engaged in for profit, where the investment or losses are comparatively small. Moreover, an opportunity to earn a substantial ultimate profit in a highly speculative venture is ordinarily sufficient to indicate that the activity is engaged in for profit even though losses or only occasional small profits are actually generated.
(8) The financial status of the taxpayer. The fact that the taxpayer does not have substantial income or capital from sources other than the activity may indicate that an activity is engaged in for profit. Substantial income from sources other than the activity (particularly if the losses from the activity generate substantial tax benefits) may indicate that the activity is not engaged in for profit especially if there are personal or recreational elements involved.
(9) Elements of personal pleasure or recreation. The presence of personal motives in carrying on of an activity may indicate that the activity is not engaged in for profit, especially where there are recreational or personal elements involved. On the other hand, a profit motivation may be indicated where an activity lacks any appeal other than profit. It is not, however, necessary that an activity be engaged in with the exclusive intention of deriving a profit or with the intention of maximizing profits. For example, the availability of other investments which would yield a higher return, or which would be more likely to be profitable, is not evidence that an activity is not engaged in for profit. An activity will not be treated as not engaged in for profit merely because the taxpayer has purposes or motivations other than solely to make a profit. Also, the fact that the taxpayer derives personal pleasure from engaging in the activity is not sufficient to cause the activity to be classified as not engaged in for profit if the activity is in fact engaged in for profit as evidenced by other factors whether or not listed in this paragraph.
Discussion of the nine factors in the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations
08-10-2021 03:34 PM
My CPA laughed at me...when I told him I thought "selling stuff on EBAY was a hobby". Whether you report your earnings as a "business or a hobby" you must show income on your tax returns.
EBAY sending "sales tax" to your STATE (under your SS#) so you will have to report "gross income" (then deducts allowable expenses).
When you file as a business there are numerous deductions you can take (so you rarely would have any tax liability anyway).
08-10-2021 03:49 PM
@caldreamer wrote:When you file as a business there are numerous deductions you can take (so you rarely would have any tax liability anyway).
Please give some examples of these numerous deductions I can take that are likely to eliminate my tax liability.
08-10-2021 04:15 PM - edited 08-10-2021 04:17 PM
Thank you for providing good information on this 1099-K tax change, which I believe is going to be a very big issue in a few months, and definitely with a lot of kicking and screaming (and blaming eBay, of course) come January of 2023.
Common sense, along with the background of the IRS way of looking at a "hobby", seems to indicate that a lot of sellers here, who have been skirting the reporting of income and paying taxes on their sales, are going to have a real awakening.
It's not as onerous as one would think, though, with generous legitimate expense deductions. I have enjoyed being on the good side of the IRS by following the law for the last 18 years here, and not kidding myself that what I was selling did not fit under the IRS guidelines as reportable income -- whether I had over $20k in gross sales that generated a 1099-K, or more often than not much less.
To all of those who will be affected, welcome to the club! It's about time this playing field got leveled.
Cheers, Duffy
08-10-2021 04:18 PM
@luckythewinner wrote:
@caldreamer wrote:When you file as a business there are numerous deductions you can take (so you rarely would have any tax liability anyway).
Please give some examples of these numerous deductions I can take that are likely to eliminate my tax liability.
Well, one example might be keeping a mileage log. You are going out for a Saturday of scanning yard/estate sale, write down starting and ending mileage or if you drive 50 miles one way to an auction or major book sale, recording 100 miles. Mileage at $0.56 per mile can add up. Just driving 5 miles to the post office, 3-5 times a week can add up. Just don't do the grocery shopping or the cleaners on the way. I don't even take 1/3 of the mileage I drive because with all the other things, I don't need it.
08-10-2021 04:22 PM
1. Home Internet
2. Driving to the post office to drop packages, fedex, or ups.
3. If you buy packing materials.
4. Driving to your Goodwill, Salvation Army store's, if that's where you get your stuff for re-selling purposes.
5. Office space (home office)
6. Cell phone, if that's how you take pictures and how you do your posting.
I am not a financial advisor. Just a seller.
08-10-2021 04:24 PM
@luckythewinner wrote:
@caldreamer wrote:When you file as a business there are numerous deductions you can take (so you rarely would have any tax liability anyway).
Please give some examples of these numerous deductions I can take that are likely to eliminate my tax liability.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed
I'm sure you'll be able to find something.
08-10-2021 04:40 PM
@jhr-4800 wrote:1. Home Internet
2. Driving to the post office to drop packages, fedex, or ups.
3. If you buy packing materials.
4. Driving to your Goodwill, Salvation Army store's, if that's where you get your stuff for re-selling purposes.
5. Office space (home office)
6. Cell phone, if that's how you take pictures and how you do your posting.
I am not a financial advisor. Just a seller.
Adding on to this, if you have a storage unit that you use to store your inventory, you can deduct for that too.
08-10-2021 04:55 PM
@luckythewinner wrote:
@caldreamer wrote:When you file as a business there are numerous deductions you can take (so you rarely would have any tax liability anyway).
Please give some examples of these numerous deductions I can take that are likely to eliminate my tax liability.
Your mileage may vary because I'm in Canada and things might be different...
For business activities (not limited to eBay), I am deducting:
- Meals out
- Travel
- Hydro/Gas/Water
- Mortgage interest (principal is not deductible)
- Phone/Internet
- Maintenance costs on my residence
- Shipping that I paid for
- Expenses relating to ordering inventory
- Sales Tax I paid in Canada (against tax being collected in Canada)
- Craft materials
- Coin and stamp packaging supplies
- Fuel and vehicle expenses
- PO Box and various administrative costs
- Shipping materials
- Insurance costs
- Property taxes
What I can't deduct in Canada... groceries for personal use, personal purchases, medication, dental and medical care, mortgage principal, expenses relating to my regular full time job (like cafeteria meals), clothing, beauty salon visits, entertainment that's not relating to the business.
Every room in my house (except my roommate's bedroom) is being used for one business purpose of another. My basement has significant storage of shipping envelopes and supplies and jewellery display materials (from when I was selling in a shop), I have an office, and my living room and dining room area have cabinets with fabric, beads, and craft supplies for making jewellery. The only thing I don't keep in the house is the coins.
C.
08-10-2021 04:58 PM
@yuzuha wrote:
@jhr-4800 wrote:1. Home Internet
2. Driving to the post office to drop packages, fedex, or ups.
3. If you buy packing materials.
4. Driving to your Goodwill, Salvation Army store's, if that's where you get your stuff for re-selling purposes.
5. Office space (home office)
6. Cell phone, if that's how you take pictures and how you do your posting.
I am not a financial advisor. Just a seller.
Adding on to this, if you have a storage unit that you use to store your inventory, you can deduct for that too.
I didn't think of that on my list since I don't have storage... when looking for a new place to live a basement was a must so I could store a dozen boxes of shipping materials and many bins of craft stuff that's not currently in use. (In Ontario new houses don't have basements, the basement is one living area floor of the stacked townhouse).
C.
08-10-2021 05:01 PM
Adding on: ^^^^
Our CPA has us track:
Internet/Cable Wifi - 25% of the Bill
Cell Phone - 25% of the Bill
Health Insurance Premiums
Applicable Car Mileage and % of Maintenance (logged)
Business Loan Interest/LOC
Warehouse Lease (Monthly)
Business Insurance Premiums
Advertising
SEP-IRA Contributions
Office Supplies, Toner, Postage, etc
Tax Prep Fees
Home Office Deduction
UPS Postal Mailbox Annual Fee
We never claimed meals or travel stays, even when we have done so for business. We do claim the mileage.
08-10-2021 05:03 PM - edited 08-10-2021 05:06 PM
@skatefool wrote:
@luckythewinner wrote:
@caldreamer wrote:When you file as a business there are numerous deductions you can take (so you rarely would have any tax liability anyway).
Please give some examples of these numerous deductions I can take that are likely to eliminate my tax liability.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed
I'm sure you'll be able to find something.
I'm not looking for "something".
I'm not looking for pennies per mile that every sensible seller already deducts.
I'm not looking for routine shipping supplies that every sensible seller already deducts.
I'm not talking about a camera or a cell phone.
The post I was responding to stated that there are numerous deductions so that sellers would "rarely" have a tax liability at all.
I'm looking for those numerous deductions that will offset many, many thousands of dollars in income so I will have no tax liability as the poster I was responding to suggested.
08-10-2021 05:04 PM
When you file as a business there are numerous deductions you can take (so you rarely would have any tax liability anyway).
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If you rarely have any tax liability...................... then you don't have much of a "business model".
Tax liability is based partially upon making a profit. If you don't make enough profit to have a "tax liability"............................... well, you may as well just go fishing, or golfing.
08-10-2021 05:05 PM
1. Cost of goods you sold.
2. Mileage traveled to buy items and going to the post office.
3. Ebay fees
4. Postage
5. Home office deduction
6. Shipping supplies costs
7. Internet connection fees
8. Cell phone fees
9. Medical insurance premiums if you are self employed and no covered by employer plan.
10. Contributions to a SEP plan.
11. Bank service charges
12. Business use of your car
13. Interest on debts used for business purposes
14. Office equipment expenses used for your business. (PC's, printers, camera, and ect)
15. Business related travel.
I'm sure there are many more items you can deduct that I've missed. My suggestion is to hire a professional tax preparer. They will save you a lot more money in taxes than the fees charge.