Argh another pointless return because buyer didn't read the listing...

[gwzcomps]

I try to spell it out quite clearly what people are getting in the listing when it comes to my laptops and desktops.  Despite this I still get people who are surprised when they get a computer that doesn't boot to an operating system.  I genuinely don't know how to dumb it down further short of wasting characters in the title saying something like "No Windows"  Maybe I just need to put in all my listings PLEASE DON'T BUY MY ITEMS! to get rid of the buyers who don't know what they are doing.  I am so tired of losing time and money because people are too lazy to read the listing. Example listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/372935788523

[datemike1]

As someone who isn't horribly familiar with computers, though I would understand what no OS meant, maybe dumb it down and add to the top of the item description, which you currently have as "No Operating System Lenovo Thinkpad T440 14" Intel i5-4300U Dual Core 4GB Webcam"

You might have to get really dumb with it and say something like:

"NO OPERATING SYSTEM - WHEN YOU TURN THIS LAPTOP ON, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE THIS LAPTOP WITHOUT LOADING WINDOWS OR ANOTHER OPERATING SYSTEM.  IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT, DON'T PURCHASE THIS LAPTOP."

That won't stop the wrong person from purchasing it but I've found over the years you MUST get down to a level of dumb you didn't think you'd have to.  For example, I sell a lot of posters.  I ship these posters wrapped in kraft paper, which adds a layer of protection during shipment so they don't get dinged up.  I roll the poster in kraft paper and tape it long ways so it stays secure.  Never in my wildest dreams did I think i'd have to tell buyers not to use scissors to cut the kraft paper open, but low and behold a few years ago I had two separate buyers write me after they received their posters that they accidentally cut right thru them with scissors.  It really wasn't my responsibility to replace them but I did just to make sure the buyer got what they ordered regardless of their lapse in judgement.  I now put a sticker over the taped, rolled kraft paper that says do not use scissors.  It's common sense.  But ever since I started putting that sticker on, i haven't received another email about this.

Whatever you think is dumbing down in the description is not dumbed down enough.  If you think you've gone dumb enough, go deeper.  No matter how ridiculous you think it is.

[datemike1]

@orangehound that's true for people looking for a laptop ready to use.  but it's not true for people looking for a working laptop with no OS.  If i'm a buyer looking for a pre-owned working laptop to load an OS onto, if he lists it as for parts/not working, I may miss it if I don't search the right category.  

[gwzcomps]

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@orangehound wrote:

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@gwzcomps wrote:

I try to spell it out quite clearly what people are getting in the listing when it comes to my laptops and desktops.  Despite this I still get people who are surprised when they get a computer that doesn't boot to an operating system.

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I understand that you are trying to be clear, and you may hate me for saying this ... but you are listing it incorrectly.  The buyer cannot fully be blamed here.

The definition of "used" is An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. 

If you are selling a laptop without an operating system, then it is not fully operational and it cannot function - regardless of how you might want to caveat that condition.  You are listing it incorrectly.  That is, you can't in one part of your listing say it is fully operational, and then in another part of your listing say that it is not.  That's confusing.

You either need to put an OS on it, or list it as "For parts or not working".

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Well I guess you aren't wrong.  There isn't really a correct item condition to pick for my case then.

For parts or not working

An item that does not function as intended and is not fully operational. This includes items that are defective in ways that render them difficult to use, items that require service or repair, items that are locked or can't be activated, or items missing essential components. See the seller's listing for full details.

They aren't defective in ways that make them difficult to use.  It isn't that difficult to install Windows anymore.  They have made it crazy easy.  If I list them for parts or repair eBay will suppress and/or actively hide my listings.  I guess this is just further proof I should quit selling on eBay.  This used to not be a problem.

[gwzcomps]

I honestly don't know how to go dumber. I might have to steal your suggested text and put it in my listings. I just worry about having too much clutter since people don't read the descriptions as it is.

Parts or repair definitely won't work eBay will suppress and/or actively hide my listings.

[18704d]

"Despite this I still get people who are surprised when they get a computer that doesn't boot to an operating system."

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Why not simply put an operating system on them?

"Linus" is free. It's very strong and powerful and up-to-date.

I'm using a variety called Ubuntu.

Go on YouTube, you'll see what I mean.

It's easy to install.. and I believe it'd totally solve your problem.

Lynn

[myangelandmyprincess]

No hard drive or anything maybe you should list it as parts?   It seems to lack essential components that don’t make it fully operational or functioning as intended as required by the used category. 

“Used. An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that has been used. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections. See all item conditions”

[orangehound]

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@gwzcomps wrote:

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Well I guess you aren't wrong.  There isn't really a correct item condition to pick for my case then.

They aren't defective in ways that make them difficult to use.  It isn't that difficult to install Windows anymore.  They have made it crazy easy.

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Your expectation is based on your comfort with technology ... and I think you are overestimating the tech-savy abilities of your customers.  That is, some customers can handle a laptop without an OS, and some cannot (for example, some boomer close to 70).

I don't know the number, but perhaps 40-50% of people looking for a laptop don't even know what it means for a laptop to "not have an OS".   My guess is that they think, "I don't need this OS thing, whatever that is.  I just plan to use it to connect to the internet so I can update my FaceBook" ... or "I'll reset it, and the dang thing will get into its default configuration ... then update over the internet ... just like my phone."

[datemike1]

@gwzcomps feel free to use that wording.  And don't worry about there being too much in the item description, just make sure that part is at the very top of the item description because that buyer won't read the whole item description anyways.  The buyer you want will read the whole description and will likely appreciate your thoroughness.  

[gwzcomps]

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@18704d wrote:

"Despite this I still get people who are surprised when they get a computer that doesn't boot to an operating system."

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Why not simply put an operating system on them?

"Linus" is free. It's very strong and powerful and up-to-date.

I'm using a variety called Ubuntu.

Go on YouTube, you'll see what I mean.

It's easy to install.. and I believe it'd totally solve your problem.

Lynn

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I have honestly considered that with how user friendly Ubuntu has gotten.  I worry that people will be even more confused since the interface and program support is different.  Maybe I should try to get in the Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher program.  I don't believe I could do enough business to qualify though.

[myangelandmyprincess]

I should clarify that I looked at one of your listings and that’s what I’m basing my response on but this is what you have. 

“WILL NOT INCLUDE any memory, removable batteries, hard drives, power supplies, software, or anything else not pictured. The hard drive caddies are intact in these.”

no OS would qualify as used but if there is no hard drive just the caddy to put on I don’t think it should be listed as used.  

[gwzcomps]

Yeah that would have been one of my barebones listings. Those are debatable. They have been tested to be in working order, but I am selling them missing those parts for the type of person who knows what they are doing. I have yet to have problems with those, but buyers find new and creative ways to be dumb... I will have to rethink the barebones listings probably. Parts repair is a pointless condition if eBay is going to hide the listings. Might as well just throw them away at that point.

[datemike1]

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@gwzcomps wrote:

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I have honestly considered that with how user friendly Ubuntu has gotten.  I worry that people will be even more confused since the interface and program support is different.  Maybe I should try to get in the Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher program.  I don't believe I could do enough business to qualify though.

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If a buyer doesn't know what no operating system means, loading it with anything other than Windows will confuse them even more and won't do anything to lower the likelihood of them returning it.  

[animal-house-8]

I'm really don't have anything to recommend to get people to actually read. If I had a dollar every time someone emailed me asking how tall is this when in the listing it says items is 5" tall I would not have to sell anything just collect on stupidity. I just part of the selling life you have to deal the best you can I guess. Keep trying but please let us all know if you find something that works.

[chapeau-noir]

I've sold some machinery 'for parts or repair' and its moved pretty quickly - I wonder if this is just a harder sell for computer equipment?  It may be more accessible to tear down a high-grade coffee grinder (for instance, one item I sold) and replace some parts than work on an electronic device. I know there's a big market for repairable electronics in my area - there are little storefront shops here and there which can fix just about anything for you and do a side business in reselling repaired electronics of all kinds. A lot of their inventory is also from thrifts where they scour the shelves for electronics (which is where they intersect with the DH and myself, also scouring shelves), but it's a very direct-to-market setup.

[gwzcomps]

In general I don't think people want the pride and satisfaction they get from repairing stuff anymore. The instant gratification of throwing it away and buying another is the new way. It isn't like the past when you would troubleshoot your stuff, look at a schematic, then replace the appropriate parts. I think I may just stop listing as much stuff on eBay and find more vendors to directly sell to. With the current trend I am seeing it might not be viable to sell the stuff I do much longer anyways.