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Are impressions organic or manipulated?

I looked at a chart of the past few months with my impressions and what I see is shocking. 

 

I update my existing listings frequently.  For the past 6 months I've been updating my listings using PL's and I've been setting the rate at .01% higher than the "suggested rate". 

 

My question is this.  If ebay is using PL's to show your listings to people and I'm rewarding ebay with a higher than their "suggested rate" wouldn't you think that the impressions should be going UP not DOWN?

 

I'd like to know what's going on.  This is not right.  I've been working so hard to keep my store updated and running.  I have a new baby born in March.  3 kids to feed now.  I need my business to be allowed to grow, NOT SHRINK!

 

Is this manipulation to try and get people to use their PL Advanced?  If so, it's morally and ethically wrong.  If I'm using PL's and giving ebay upwards of 13% more in fees I should see an increase in sales, not a decrease with 13% more fees!

 

Here's the image:

 

Impressions going down despite 13% PL rates on most of my items added during this same period.Impressions going down despite 13% PL rates on most of my items added during this same period.

Message 1 of 115
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114 REPLIES 114

Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?

LUCKY has the right answer here. Many variables other than what you pay for the promotion. Extremely high rate does not quarentee a sale whatsoever on a consistent basis. Depends on audience online at the time, price too high or just right, yes, supply/demand, BIG ONE. And the luck of the slot machine rotating the listings.

Message 16 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?

Well, they have to give EVERYONE A CHANCE to sell their product. Even if they are not a big as you.

Message 17 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?


@vintagecraze50 wrote:

Well, they have to give EVERYONE A CHANCE to sell their product. Even if they are not a big as you.


Also the “slot” machine only has so many slots.

Message 18 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?


@vintagecraze50 wrote:

@vintagecraze50 wrote:

Well, they have to give EVERYONE A CHANCE to sell their product. Even if they are not a big as you.


Also the “slot” machine only has so many slots.


The “slots” on an IPHONE are extremely limited.

Message 19 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?

Remember also that the slots avail using off site ads are also limited and rotate and are subject to Googles rules for inclusion.

Message 20 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?

Consumers need to be on here at any particular time to purchase the goods. If consumers have many choices for the same product through many other venues then there will be only so much of a chance by sheer number of consumers.

Message 21 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?

It's all manipulated. Numbers change days later. Meaning none of the numbers they give you are accurate. It's made up numbers and eBay never comes clean about it. Just less transparency from eBay.... 

Message 22 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?


@vintagecraze50 wrote:

LUCKY has the right answer here. Many variables other than what you pay for the promotion. Extremely high rate does not quarentee a sale whatsoever on a consistent basis. Depends on audience online at the time, price too high or just right, yes, supply/demand, BIG ONE. And the luck of the slot machine rotating the listings.


It's more complicated than this as well. And some of us have tested these things extensively over the years.

 

I can tell you that in our testing, let's say we decide to double rates from 6% to 12% without changing the price? It doesn't do A THING! Logic dictates that based on how they explain these rates to us, it should increase traffic. It doesn't. Based on our testing, there's a "minimum" rate that you must invest (for the moment 4-5%) and as long as you do that, the "traffic switch" is turned on. There's nothing you can do to improve it now.

 

The testing has also proven that investment DOES affect your ORGANIC traffic! This is literally defying the definition of what an organic impression is. Organic traffic should NEVER be altered by ad investment. But here we are, this is a NORMAL thing on eBay. If your Promoted traffic increases too much your organic traffic will DECREASE. On the other hand, if you invest so little in promotions that the "switch turns off" your organic traffic plummets by 80%+.

 

Taking this in to consideration, it's more than just the "slot machine" of listings. Because eBay will actually have a ceiling for how much traffic you have a day. Slot machines are random, and without consistency. So how does eBay have consistency for weeks-months at a time? Those of us who are in to online marketing know that real traffic is VERY random. But eBay is anything but random. Impressions may swing by 20-30%, but views will stay the same, sales will stay the same. Organic views may be 2x promoted views, but promoted sales  will consistently be  2x organic sales. 

 

Now what about the truth that eBay exposed in how their algorithms work? How during errors where promoted impressions are not being read from their database properly, the views literally REDISTRIBUTED before our eyes? Going from 0 promoted impressions 1000 organic impressions 100 organic views, to 1000 promoted impressions 1000 organic impressions 50 promoted views 50 organic views? This proven that eBay is NOT simply retrieving/displaying traffic numbers, but is instead CALCULATING the views in real time and expecting a discrepancy. They are EXTRAPOLATING their traffic pages.

 

You guys are too trusting of eBay, and are too quick to dismiss what sellers have experienced on here with "easy explanations" that we have already considered, tested, and tests have proven things aren't so simple. You can have the cheapest price, you can have higher ad investment, and eBay will STILL cut off your sales at the same exact number every day. Once you hit your ceiling of your limits, there's nothing you can do to raise that bar. And before you guys even start the rumor that there are no limits, there are, and eBay has even admit it.

Message 23 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?

@zamo-zuan 
    We see the same thing in our research

Message 24 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?


@redlinear wrote:

@zamo-zuan 
    We see the same thing in our research


I don't doubt it! As long as you have a decent bulk of orders for a nice sample set to work with, these things are quite obvious to see in action.

 

Sadly, the challenge isn't convincing sellers like us (we are forced to work within these rules for our livelihood). It's convincing other people who throw shade and doubt on our experiences. Because eBay staff will openly admit that their teams work by tickets and the more people added to a ticket is necessary for things to be fixed. So without enough people not only aware of this, but also being familiar enough to convey it to eBay staff members, it'll never be fixed.

 

We're reliant on others to get these things fixed, but unless sellers are large enough, they trust in eBay over the experience of those of us who actually are top sellers on here and can see how bad things have become.

Message 25 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?

Well said and totally true.  Maybe one day ebay will realize if they take their thumb off the scale we could actually raise revenue all around.  Healthy competition breeds good business and weeds out the bad sellers.  "Spreading around the wealth" isn't a long term plan in my opinion.  We're living through an experiment right now.  One day the execs will realize that playing "big brother" to micromanage other people's business' isn't really the way to go.  Allowing a free space where people rise and fail based on their own merit and hard work will always be the best way to go.

 

Let's hope someone realizes this before long.  It really would be nice to be able to grow.

Message 26 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?


@vintagecraze50 wrote:

Consumers need to be on here at any particular time to purchase the goods. If consumers have many choices for the same product through many other venues then there will be only so much of a chance by sheer number of consumers.


However, when THAT consumer IS on here. Visibility of your listing is very important. 

Message 27 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?


@movieman630 wrote:

Well said and totally true.  Maybe one day ebay will realize if they take their thumb off the scale we could actually raise revenue all around.  Healthy competition breeds good business and weeds out the bad sellers.  "Spreading around the wealth" isn't a long term plan in my opinion.  We're living through an experiment right now.  One day the execs will realize that playing "big brother" to micromanage other people's business' isn't really the way to go.  Allowing a free space where people rise and fail based on their own merit and hard work will always be the best way to go.

 

Let's hope someone realizes this before long.  It really would be nice to be able to grow.


Healthy competition happens when sellers use the promotion rates to the extent that they can price themselves among the competition, not JUST HERE, but all over the web selling that product.

Message 28 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?


@vintagecraze50 wrote:

@movieman630 wrote:

Well said and totally true.  Maybe one day ebay will realize if they take their thumb off the scale we could actually raise revenue all around.  Healthy competition breeds good business and weeds out the bad sellers.  "Spreading around the wealth" isn't a long term plan in my opinion.  We're living through an experiment right now.  One day the execs will realize that playing "big brother" to micromanage other people's business' isn't really the way to go.  Allowing a free space where people rise and fail based on their own merit and hard work will always be the best way to go.

 

Let's hope someone realizes this before long.  It really would be nice to be able to grow.


Healthy competition happens when sellers use the promotion rates to the extent that they can price themselves among the competition, not JUST HERE, but all over the web selling that product.


The biggest mistake that uninformed novice sellers can is price item too high using a too high promotion rate. If you cannot obtain the inventory at a price where you can raise the promotional rates and ad fees  then give that up. It will not work. You must be in the price range of your competition. Know your margins.

Message 29 of 115
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Re: Are impressions organic or manipulated?


@vintagecraze50 wrote:

@movieman630 wrote:

Well said and totally true.  Maybe one day ebay will realize if they take their thumb off the scale we could actually raise revenue all around.  Healthy competition breeds good business and weeds out the bad sellers.  "Spreading around the wealth" isn't a long term plan in my opinion.  We're living through an experiment right now.  One day the execs will realize that playing "big brother" to micromanage other people's business' isn't really the way to go.  Allowing a free space where people rise and fail based on their own merit and hard work will always be the best way to go.

 

Let's hope someone realizes this before long.  It really would be nice to be able to grow.


Healthy competition happens when sellers use the promotion rates to the extent that they can price themselves among the competition, not JUST HERE, but all over the web selling that product.


But it doesn't work like that.

 

As a matter of fact, using the SAR will only hurt you. Because it's far above what people are actually using in the category. And as I had mentioned above, investing more does NOT give you an advantage over the competition.

 

And that is the fundamental flaw. There is no way to "compete". If you invest enough to satisfy the algorithm in your category, you get put in the same boat with everyone else who has an "on-switch". 

 

This needs to be emphasized. Me putting 12% and you having 6% for the same sale price/same everything else in the listing does NOT mean I have an advantage over you.

 

Which means there is a void of healthy competition on eBay. Taking care of your customers does not give you an advantage. Investing more heavily does not. Having cheaper prices, better shipping, all those things? You will still be at the whim of the algorithm and everything will rebalance to give the same performance in the end, just with potentially more out of pocket.

 

And taking the "healthy competition" scenario doesn't bode well for eBay as a whole, either. Because if we compare to the rest of the web, people investing as much as they are in promotions is only making eBay prices more expensive and the marketplace less competitive against other marketplaces.

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