An Open Letter To eBay On Behalf Of Your Sellers.

[albany_sellers]

I would like to make this thread one of the most active and largest posts on these discussion boards to make sure the eBay sees how serious we are about such things.  I need everybody  to help me with this to ensure that eBay gives serious thought to the points made in this post.

An Open Letter To eBay:

Be more responsible and look out for your sellers better. We are in desperate need of better protection and competent representatives when things go wrong. We are not always at fault and should not always have the cost of business fall to us when things go badly with an unreasonable or bad buyer or when we are given incorrect information from the phone reps. We are not asking that eBay be responsible for everything that happens, but we do ask that eBay protects us from things that we have no control over and from issues that are no fault of ours.

Additionally, as of October with PayPal's new policy of no longer refunding our fees, eBay needs to step up to the plate and do something to combat this fiasco and make it a buyer's responsibility to pay for their own mistakes when they ask for a cancellation or provide a bad address. As sellers, we will not just quietly lose our PayPal fees, fees that depending on what we are selling can run into the hundreds of dollars very quickly because of a buyer's mistake.

Once this new policy goes into effect, you can count on many unhappy buyers who have packages shipped to them that they don't want shipped to them, and in turn many unhappy sellers who have false INAD cases or problems from buyers who do not want to accept responsibility. This is going to affect eBay in the form of an enormous surge in sellers AND buyers who tie up your phone lines demanding solutions. 

I personally will no longer cancel orders for any reason once this October policy goes into effect on PayPal unless I have a solution from eBay to remove my responsibility for a buyer's mistake or to compensate me for my losses if i am forced to. I think every rational person can agree that a seller having to come out of their own pocket for such a reason is unacceptable and that this is an easy problem to fix. You will find that the vast majority of us sellers are on the same page about this subject.

eBay needs to either roll out managed payments completely at this point or have a clause that lets us sellers deduct PayPal fees from remorse returns and from cancellations due to bad addresses or buyer requests. We will also be looking to eBay to include in the terms of managed payments that they will not be holding out and keeping fees after refunds such as PayPal is doing starting on October.

eBay has a real opportunity here to show their sellers that they care and to garner a great amount of good will by stepping in and making right what PayPal has gotten wrong. It would be very advantageous for eBay to take advantage of this situation and would go a long ways in showing us that you are taking our feedback serious.

[mansons2005]

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@myjunqueyourtreasure wrote:

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@mansons2005 wrote:
General Reply - New Information

Ecommercebytes just published the following clarification from PayPal which will mitigate some of the angst over cancellations, etc.:

“A “void” occurs when a transaction is canceled before it has a chance to be settled. This might be a transaction made by mistake and quickly canceled or similar situation. Once the transaction is settled, it cannot be voided, only refunded. Because a void makes it like the transaction never happened at all, no fee was collected from the merchant and thus nothing to refund.”

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Pretty sure they will consider a PAID transaction then cancelled NOT a "void" as payment would pretty much "settle" the transaction, no? Unless they mean settled as in item shipped, which they certainly could have spelled out if so.

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By "Settled" I believe that they mean that the payment has cleared, which contrary to all of the "I get my money immediately with PayPal" nonsense being spouted on the boards, actually takes some time. If a buyer pays via a credit card, there is no way that a payment can be settled any faster than a day - the cc company has to actually transfer the money to PayPal. At that point a transaction can be considered settled.  PayPal has been fronting money to sellers and taking the risk that a payment may not actually clear.  This is what the non-hysterical people on the boards have been trying to explain but so many just refuse to listen to facts......................the financial system has been working this way for decades, PayPal was the odd man out.

[albany_sellers]

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@mansons2005 wrote:
General Reply - New Information

Ecommercebytes just published the following clarification from PayPal which will mitigate some of the angst over cancellations, etc.:

“A “void” occurs when a transaction is canceled before it has a chance to be settled. This might be a transaction made by mistake and quickly canceled or similar situation. Once the transaction is settled, it cannot be voided, only refunded. Because a void makes it like the transaction never happened at all, no fee was collected from the merchant and thus nothing to refund.”

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Sounds to me like PayPal is just trying to shine up a turd to look better. Regardless, I am done with PayPal if they do this. I will pull all items from my eBay store and list them elsewhere until managed payments is made available. I don't want to do managed payments, but PayPal has become the worse choice at this point.

[earlyant-77]

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@albany_sellers wrote:

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@nuclearomen wrote:

i find the list of issues you have of importance of to ebay to take note and fix not worth the true time over other issues i see as more serious. These things maybe issues but others truly need attention above them like hiding listings, promotional listing fraud, load of site issues, GTC policy that killed sales for many of ebays sellers etc... As for the PayPal not returning fees, well i guess if you get a lot of returns it could be issue but I only ever had 2 returns and I was more then happy to honor them, I mean I offer 30 day returns and they were legit reasons, the items were returned to me in same condition they left and I refunded the buyers money - no issue. Those returns did not leave any negative mark on my sellers status, buyers even left positive feedback after words.

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For those returns you were not being forced to eat the fees afterwards. What I am talking about is how starting on Oct 11th, you will lose 30 cents plus 2.9% of the money that your item sells for simply because someone has a change of heart or because they try to scam you and you are forced to cancel the sale.

2.9% does not seem like a lot, but it adds up significantly. one $500 sale that the buyer decides they want to cancel would mean you get to lose about $15 just because. Every $1000 is $30 of yours that vanishes and so on.

Now picture a new seller trying to sell a $1,000 MacBook, think of how many times this seller is going to have someone attempt to scam them before they actually have an honest buyer. Should this seller be content with PayPal keeping close to $150 after the 5th time the sale has to be canceled due to scammers coming out of the woodwork to get one over on a new account?

How about when I sold $4,000 worth of business IP phones and had to cancel the sale 3 times due to scammers? Had it been after October 11th, that would have been $345+ down the drain because of something that was in no way my fault, something due to other people's dishonesty that I would have had to pay for.

If eBay wants to control our every move on this platform, then they can take responsibility for our losses when we lose money due to scammers and bad buyers that they did not do their job to prevent. It's as simple as that.

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But have those scammers actually paid? I doubt it, so the fee wouldn't apply,

[earlyant-77]

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@mansons2005 wrote:

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@myjunqueyourtreasure wrote:

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@mansons2005 wrote:
General Reply - New Information

Ecommercebytes just published the following clarification from PayPal which will mitigate some of the angst over cancellations, etc.:

“A “void” occurs when a transaction is canceled before it has a chance to be settled. This might be a transaction made by mistake and quickly canceled or similar situation. Once the transaction is settled, it cannot be voided, only refunded. Because a void makes it like the transaction never happened at all, no fee was collected from the merchant and thus nothing to refund.”

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Pretty sure they will consider a PAID transaction then cancelled NOT a "void" as payment would pretty much "settle" the transaction, no? Unless they mean settled as in item shipped, which they certainly could have spelled out if so.

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By "Settled" I believe that they mean that the payment has cleared, which contrary to all of the "I get my money immediately with PayPal" nonsense being spouted on the boards, actually takes some time. If a buyer pays via a credit card, there is no way that a payment can be settled any faster than a day - the cc company has to actually transfer the money to PayPal. At that point a transaction can be considered settled.  PayPal has been fronting money to sellers and taking the risk that a payment may not actually clear.  This is what the non-hysterical people on the boards have been trying to explain but so many just refuse to listen to facts......................the financial system has been working this way for decades, PayPal was the odd man out.

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Exactly. And I believe that the transaction may not be settled until the item is shipped - if you had your own site, and took credit cards, you can authorize the card, but you can't charge it until shipment.

[deaderpool]

I love people who defend Ebay........there is no question that they have destroyed a once great market place, and you lemmings that continue to carry their flag are marching straight into the meat grinder.........

[mansons2005]

Many here are not defending eBay - they are trying to dispel the myths, rumors, and misinformation that tends to run rampant when ever the sky even appears to be falling. I personally am not happy with many of the changes eBay has made, past and present, but that does not mean that I don't want to understand them and to try and formulate a plan to continue my business within the framework of those changes.
I see so many here posting that eBay is the worst, the most corrupt, etc. - and yet they are still here. If they are continuing to sell they should be attempting to come up with their own plans. If they are not selling and have "left" because of their strong feelings, I don't understand why they are here, spreading discontent, repeating rumors, belittling others, and disrupting conversations between those that "have" to find their way through this ever changing morass, er, I mean maze.

Just one man's opinion, no more important than another's................

[this*old*attic]

So utterly well said!!!

[nuclearomen]

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@mansons2005 wrote:
Many here are not defending eBay - they are trying to dispel the myths, rumors, and misinformation that tends to run rampant when ever the sky even appears to be falling. I personally am not happy with many of the changes eBay has made, past and present, but that does not mean that I don't want to understand them and to try and formulate a plan to continue my business within the framework of those changes.
I see so many here posting that eBay is the worst, the most corrupt, etc. - and yet they are still here. If they are continuing to sell they should be attempting to come up with their own plans. If they are not selling and have "left" because of their strong feelings, I don't understand why they are here, spreading discontent, repeating rumors, belittling others, and disrupting conversations between those that "have" to find their way through this ever changing morass, er, I mean maze.

Just one man's opinion, no more important than another's................

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well put. I do have my "issues" with ebay but I have also said I'm not leaving. My plan for this issue...idk yet, not sure there is anything can do, if this is the new policy of Paypal it may work out to waiting and see if they have some sort of change of heart if they see a lot of online sellers stop using their service.. it is after all a Paypal issue/decision not Ebay, not sure if Ebay could do anything in this case. Luckily I don't sell massively expensive items (that's over $500 in my mind items) but those that do and sell in category with high rate returns this is not going to be a good situation. 

[ibkmw]

I think a reasonable solution would be for the seller to agree to the return, when the seller is in receipt of the returned item, they seller be allowed to issue a partial refund deducting their cost incurred for the total transaction from shipping to and return

i, just this week had a buyer file a return request stating the item did not match description or photo.  Entirely false claim. They got exactly what they ordered, fully described with clear photos. This was a brand new unworn pair of na hoku earrings.  The comment section from the buyer states they are sorry but they thought the earrings would be more substantial in weight and they were too light for her; would I please accept a return. The buyer reached out to me for a reduced price which I agreed and out of pocket, I upgraded shipping to priority and added insurance

my only option on the eBay form was to accept the return which cost me another shipping fee.  My other option was to issue a refund or partial refund.  Neither was an option without having the item back in my hands

they clearly stated they “thought” they would be more substantial.  I had no control over what they thought. So I am out shipping and insurance to and back because of their buyers remorse.  I felt with the options given, I was forced by policy to accept the return. I think I should have the right to issue a partial refund after acquiring the return to compensate for the fees incurred for their change of mind

i think implementation of allowing a seller to recoup those fees are a fair solution to my situation and this request you are proposing 

[yuzuha]

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@earlyant-77 wrote:

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Exactly. And I believe that the transaction may not be settled until the item is shipped - if you had your own site, and took credit cards, you can authorize the card, but you can't charge it until shipment.

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I'm pretty sure that's a law, actually.  I preorder things from various sites all the time and I am never charged for them until the item actually ships.

[fashunu4eeuh]

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@equid0x wrote:

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@mansons2005 wrote:
Copies of the leases are retained by our property management company, so I don't have one on hand. But I can assure you that depending on the location and economic level of a destination shopping venue, the rules of agreement can be very stringent and particular. Up to and including whether or not sales staff can wear uniforms, that the store is open certain hours, the number of sales staff during peak shopping seasons, what can be displayed in front showcases, whether or not staff are allowed to "loiter" on premises during off periods, when cash is removed from the premises, genre, pricing level and value of merchandise, and yes, "we" negotiate with payment processors to get attractive rates for our tenants, which of course are tied to our financial institutions of choice - for our benefit of course. Real estate is a complicated business when you take it beyond renting out a few houses.

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Hmm... Do you by any chance rent to tenants in California or inside a Casino? Those are about the only places I could see anyone accepting such intrusive terms on the contract. 

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@equid0x 

What @mansons2005 said is true about mall tenant leases. Or at least it was when i was active in the industry. (To supply some credentials, I worked for the world's largest shopping center developer, and have my professional certification from the International Council of Shopping Centers. During my career I was a marketing manager, primarily for super-regional centers. I negotiated leases for mall kiosks, not inline stores, but was required to have a working knowledge of mall leasing.)

Anchor stores were exempt from most of the terms that the smaller store retailers had, and they had many. Paying a percentage of monthly sales to the developer was both a common practice and an important clause. Called percentage rent, almost all shopping center tenants agreed to pay additional rent to the landlord if their sales volume exceeded a predetermined base. It was an important income stream for the mall owner/landlord. The lease also covered build-outs, signage and storefront, hours of operation, and kinds of merchandise/services to be sold, among other clauses. 

Somewhere I have a ICSC sample lease, if I can find it. Actual leases are carefully guarded and kept private. 

[upgradedendmills]

Easily one of the best most well thought out posts I have ever read. Thank You!!!!

     I think that we might be caught up in a feud between PP and eBay here. It is almost like PayPal sees a large decrease in revenue coming with the move to mandatory Managed Payments getting closer and is making a short term fee grab in the interim. It has very little effect on me personally because of what and how I sell. Even so, I see the problem for other sellers and their bottom line.

     Nothing radical, but maybe this would be a great time for all sellers (especially the unaffected) to make a well thought out reply to PayPal regarding the issue and remind them (gently) that our future business with them on our own or other venues hinges on what they are doing right now. I strongly feel that their reputation is important to them and they might take friendlier actions towards eBay sellers.

     I don't think this is an eBay issue and they are probably extremely happy to see PayPal do it and move more sellers towards MP out of desperation or anger.

[nuclearomen]

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@upgradedendmills wrote:

Easily one of the best most well thought out posts I have ever read. Thank You!!!!

     I think that we might be caught up in a feud between PP and eBay here. It is almost like PayPal sees a large decrease in revenue coming with the move to mandatory Managed Payments getting closer and is making a short term fee grab in the interim. It has very little effect on me personally because of what and how I sell. Even so, I see the problem for other sellers and their bottom line.

     Nothing radical, but maybe this would be a great time for all sellers (especially the unaffected) to make a well thought out reply to PayPal regarding the issue and remind them (gently) that our future business with them on our own or other venues hinges on what they are doing right now. I strongly feel that their reputation is important to them and they might take friendlier actions towards eBay sellers.

     I don't think this is an eBay issue and they are probably extremely happy to see PayPal do it and move more sellers towards MP out of desperation or anger.

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the only problem is MP accepts Paypal as payments now for buyers...so unless ebay is going to give full protection if the service is picked at checkout by the buyer it will be same. 

[albany_sellers]

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@nuclearomen wrote:

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@mansons2005 wrote:
Many here are not defending eBay - they are trying to dispel the myths, rumors, and misinformation that tends to run rampant when ever the sky even appears to be falling. I personally am not happy with many of the changes eBay has made, past and present, but that does not mean that I don't want to understand them and to try and formulate a plan to continue my business within the framework of those changes.
I see so many here posting that eBay is the worst, the most corrupt, etc. - and yet they are still here. If they are continuing to sell they should be attempting to come up with their own plans. If they are not selling and have "left" because of their strong feelings, I don't understand why they are here, spreading discontent, repeating rumors, belittling others, and disrupting conversations between those that "have" to find their way through this ever changing morass, er, I mean maze.

Just one man's opinion, no more important than another's................

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it is after all a Paypal issue/decision not Ebay, not sure if Ebay could do anything in this case. 

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For starters they could stop showing buyers cheaper listings AFTER they purchase, and start making at least an effort to weed out the lousy buyers who habitually cause problems. If eBay stopped creating the perfect environment for so called buyers like this to operate, then I could probably suck it up and deal with the PayPal issue.

As long as this kind of behavior is encouraged, I will continue to point the finger at eBay as well as PayPal, they both deserve to be called out on it. You don't get to assist and encourage the scammers or bad buyers and then excuse yourself from the room like you had no part in it when things go wrong.

[albany_sellers]

I encourage all sellers to contact PayPal and voice their anger over this.  They need to understand how much money they are going to lose over this moronic money grab and how many of us are willing to sever ties.