Advice from someone that has dealt with chargebacks. Which is probably all of you

[adroitfulone]

So, here's everything that has went down:

A buyer purchased an item from me back on August 11th. The label was printed directly through ebay and automatically uploaded to paypal. Package was picked up on August 13th for shipment as confirmed by my pickup request confirmation e-mail from USPS.  Fast forward all the way to December 10th. Now, the buyer has called his financial institution and filed this as an "Unauthorized transaction". So, of course Paypal hits me with the case. I immediately call up Paypal and everything is fine because I obviously qualify for seller protection. Now, come the middle of January, and the funds are missing out of my account again. So, once again, I call up Paypal. This time however, I am no longer eligible for seller protection because the tracking number is no longer valid. Going on 6 months later, that's really no surprise.. Now, there's basically nothing that I can do according to Paypal unless that tracking number magically becomes valid again. So, I guess what i'm saying is, be careful to everyone out there. There's people that really know what they're doing when it comes to scamming sellers. This wasn't a small ticket item either. I doubt there's any way i'm ever going to be able to pay the money back to Paypal plus their $20 fee for getting scammed. Definitely won't be selling anything on Ebay anymore either because of it. I don't think there's anything I can do at this point, so i've come to warn you all. 

[adroitfulone]

I can't contact the buyer on Ebay because it was so long ago. The only thing I have is his email address. Of course I tried to contact him there. I have already filed a report with IC3. I don't think it's going to get me anywhere. There's literally nothing I can do at this point. Already been dealing with it for months on end. I mainly just came here to warn you all. If the tracking number is no longer valid, you're screwed on your seller protection and out of pocket. 

[gracieallen01]

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@adroitfulone wrote:

I tried this. They said that because they weren't the ones who delivered the package, they have no other information than what's on the tracking number. I would have to contact the local post office. Clear across the country. And, again, I can't get them to answer the phone.  What's the point in paying for this if they're just going to delete the information when I needed it the most? I paid almost $15 to ship this package. Could have done it for half the price if I didn't need the tracking and insurance. My favorite part of all of this is the $20 extra fee they tacked on there for the privilege of getting scammed. I can still laugh at that when I see it.

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You said that you couldn't get anything that had any information about the tracking number - that it was 'gone'.  Well, if they can pull it up, then they have information about the tracking number and that is what you would get a copy of and send a copy to PayPal.

[adroitfulone]

A copy of what? The tracking number? We already have this. It's automatically uploaded to Paypal as soon as I paid for the shipping label THROUGH Paypal itself. The issue is the tracking information isn't in the computer systems anymore. I don't know if it's against the rules to post it or not, so i'm not going to.  But, I literally have the email here from ebay that is the receipt for the purchase of the tracking and it says funding source: Paypal balance

[gracieallen01]

Well, then, it looks like paypal may be playing games for their $20 service fee.  Personally, if paypal has the tracking info of it being sent, then I would be looking to speak to another 'higher up'.

[twnpopcards]

@adroitfulone 

It may be to late for you unfortunately, but one of the reasons that I use stamps.com is that they have history going back at least 2 years on my shipments. I know there is not as much information still available as there used to be but there is still enough to take care of these claims , plus I have my account set up to send emails to me for every item that is delivered which are directed to a special folder in my email and automatically saved.

Since you have an Ebay Sellers Account Stamps.com will set you up with a free account that you can use for all your shipping needs although it does not have all the bells and whistles of the paying account.  But I can also print labels through out the day and still am able to get all of them on one scan sheet when I am ready to close out that days shipping which last I saw is not possible on either Ebay or Paypal. 

I hope this is helpful for others as it appears to beat the other options and you can also email all of this information to Paypal or Ebay which appears to satisfy their electronic notifications of tracking information.

[adroitfulone]

Unfortunately, I don't think that would help you if you were in my case buddy. Paypal will ONLY accept what is shown when you put in that tracking number from back in August. They know it's been delivered. Otherwise the funds wouldn't have been released to me from the hold. 

[twnpopcards]

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@adroitfulone wrote:

I tried this. They said that because they weren't the ones who delivered the package, they have no other information than what's on the tracking number. I would have to contact the local post office. Clear across the country. And, again, I can't get them to answer the phone.  What's the point in paying for this if they're just going to delete the information when I needed it the most? I paid almost $15 to ship this package. Could have done it for half the price if I didn't need the tracking and insurance. My favorite part of all of this is the $20 extra fee they tacked on there for the privilege of getting scammed. I can still laugh at that when I see it.

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@adroitfulone 

You just mentioned something that should be able to help you out.  You mentioned that you had insured the package and if the buyer is claiming they did not get it (which they are in reality) then the PO should pay off on the insurance claim if they cannot prove that it was delivered.  I have heard they actually have these types of claims stored for more than a year and if you sent it insured and signature required you might very well have found you saving grace.  File a claim with USPS and then if they decline it due to delivery use that as your proof with Paypal and also file Mail Fraud Charges against the buyer.

Good luck

[adroitfulone]

I tried to see if I can do this. I can't open an insurance claim as it asks for a valid tracking number. Which, the one they gave me doesn't work anymore. Also, I really cannot afford to fight this in court for the next 2 years.. That defeats the whole purpose of selling stuff on here for extra money when I needed it. But, I think I would have been better off not even dealing with it. I have already wasted so much time on this, it's not even really worth messing with. This has been going on for months now. I've finally just today decided that i'm done with it. 

[twnpopcards]

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@adroitfulone wrote:

Unfortunately, I don't think that would help you if you were in my case buddy. Paypal will ONLY accept what is shown when you put in that tracking number from back in August. They know it's been delivered. Otherwise the funds wouldn't have been released to me from the hold. 

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It would have helped because it would have an original email date from august showing that the item was delivered on that date and Stamps.com automatically updates Ebay and Paypal also is updated with the tracking information when the postage is purchased for the item.  Again, i have not had any issues with Paypal on chargebacks but I have 13 years in the credit card processing industry and have dealt with many chargebacks with the companies I was with, and the only ones that I ever lost were when the company went bankrupt and we no longer had access to all the information...lol

[adroitfulone]

Again, I purchased the postage from Ebay itself. The tracking number was automatically uploaded to paypal when I used the money in my Paypal balance to pay for it. An e-mail saying it was delivered would do nothing here. They already know it was delivered. Like I said, that's how the funds originally got released to me after being put on hold for confirmation of delivery. They're literally saying they know it was delivered or they wouldn't have released the funds to me, but i'm not qualified for seller protection because USPS.com shows that as an invalid tracking number now. I can still see the transaction in my paypal account from when I paid for the shipping for this order. Plus, I have the email from them confirming receipt of payment for it. 

[twnpopcards]

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@adroitfulone wrote:

I tried to see if I can do this. I can't open an insurance claim as it asks for a valid tracking number. Which, the one they gave me doesn't work anymore. Also, I really cannot afford to fight this in court for the next 2 years.. That defeats the whole purpose of selling stuff on here for extra money when I needed it. But, I think I would have been better off not even dealing with it. I have already wasted so much time on this, it's not even really worth messing with. This has been going on for months now. I've finally just today decided that i'm done with it. 

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Ok that is up to you but I always print all the invoices that I sell with the tracking numbers on them and the emails i get for the last 2 years on Stamps.com also have all that information so that i can go back that far.  USPS reuses the numbers which is why you are having issues right now, but you should be able to look at the Paypal details on that sale, print off that tracking number and then file and insurance claim for it.  If you are having problems with this then file a complaint online at USPS.com and that should get the ball rolling.  If not, then again its up to you but i would contact my Congressperson and let them know the issue with USPS, show them the documents that show you paid for the insurance and see what they can get done.  USPS still has to answer somewhat to Congress and does not want to be on their bad side.

Again if you dont want to fight it, thats up to you.  I am just trying to give you the ways you should still be able to win.  Not saying that i would take it any further either as we all have our breaking points but this is what i would do if it was worth it to me.

[adroitfulone]

Screw it. Here's the tracking number. Go ahead and go try to file a claim...

9405509699937837147496

You can't file a claim as the tracking information doesn't show a valid package anymore. You need a valid tracking number in order to file a claim. Already been there and tried to do that. 

[adroitfulone]

I have already tried contacting USPS a couple of different times. The first time was by e-mail and they basically just said I was screwed as it's been too long. Then today I sat on hold for 2 hours at their 1800 number just for the lady to tell me she can't do anything about it and to contact the local post office that delivered it. Can't get ahold of them even though it was business hours.  I've been dealing with this since the case was somehow ruled in the buyers favor even though it was pretty obvious it was a scam back in January. I've just come to realize that there is nothing else I can do except accept the loss and cover it out of pocket. Which, I cannot afford to do right now and probably wouldn't do anyways. Simply because of the whole concept of it all.  I have already cut up my Paypal business Mastercard and am ready to move on from it all. It's sad because they would have already made even more money then they lost from this transaction by simply keeping my account in good standing. 

[be_4101 · Accepted solution]

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@adroitfulone wrote:

The issue is the tracking information isn't in the computer systems anymore.

There's literally nothing I can do at this point.

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Wrong. There's absolutely something you can do. You have to read this, then rub PayPal's nose in their own policy so they can see it too:

This user agreement will be effective for all users as of November 13, 2018.

Proof of delivery

Online or physical documentation from a shipping company that includes:
Date of delivery and ‘delivered’ status

You will need this.

[the_fancy_fox]

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@adroitfulone wrote:

I called the 1800 number for USPS and they told me to call the local post office that delivered it. I have tried to call down there many times now during business hours and no one will answer the phone. 

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Call back. Tell them your local office can’t help.