Account Restricted for Leaving Honest Feedback for Buyer Who Missused Returns

[cheyennetradingco]

We have had our account restricted for leaving honest feedback on a buyer’s page.

Buyer requested return for item not as described claiming item not sealed.  We accepted return. Received it back, sealed exactly as stated in listing, uploaded picture of sealed item to return request. Issued refund of cost minus shipping through PayPal.  Ebay overrode our decision, taking money from our PayPal account to refund buyer in full. Buyer sent multiple abusive emails calling us a crook for not offering full refund. Buyer threatened negative feedback in messages and did actually leave negative feedback. We left honest feedback for buyer summarizing the bad experience we had with buyer misusing returns. Ebay restricted account because we were honest in our feedback about the buyer. 

Ebay gives option to leave feedback for buyer after transaction yet filters it so we can only leave positive.  Sellers get penalized with restrictions it we are honest.   Ebay is deciding more of these cases in favor of the buyer leaving sellers to pay the cost in return shipping fees and reputation. Buyers know they can abuse the policies and when confronted Ebay does nothing because they consider sellers as their “employees” instead of the entrepreneurial business people we truly are and consider our customers as their buyers not the consumers who desire our products at our prices. Thinking of moving $36,000 of listings to new platform totaling $80,000 in yearly sales.  Any suggestions?

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

Sellers are freely allowed to soil their own feedback. If you want to look bad to potential future buyers you can, as long as you follow feedback rules.

Feedback is like a game. Whoever looks best at the end wins. Sellers can win by following up with sympathetic follow ups that make them look like they care about their buyers. Or they can leave ranting misspelled name calling and excessive exclamation marks that make them look like lunatics.

[mam98031]

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

I'm talking about the fact that this seller has repeatedly left negative comments for buyers. You can tell how many have been removed because it says "this comment removed by Ebay" and there are several others that have not been removed.

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Got it, thank you for the clarification.  It appears this seller doesn't think the rules for the FB system / rules as either a buyer or a seller applies to them.  I say "appears" as the OP has not shared what they stated in the FB as a buyer that was removed, so we don't know for sure if it violated policy, but in review of their FB it certainly appears it is more likely than not.

[tunicaslot]

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

Don't worry, we're good. I'm fighting with Home Depot and that has made me a little cranky.

For some of us it's just the volume. Plus I buy things old people sell and some old people have bad eyesight. They're not "bad" sellers, just careless.

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I can understand that. Everyone and their brother has jumped on the bandwagon to make a little bit of extra money. When it comes to collectibles - my friends join the Facebook groups where everyone knows exactly what a collector expects and is looking for - so they've had a lot of success and no horror stories.

[tunicaslot]

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@inhawaii wrote:

I recently left kind of a nasty FOLLOW UP feedback for a buyer.  I initially gave him a positive until he tried to pull a fast one on me. 

He bought a candy from me then said he "expected" it to be bigger. Exact size was stated in the listing. Then he said "before i leave you feedback" he wanted  2 more free candies. I told him no. He left me neutral feedback. 

Hours on the phone with ebay.  They refused to remove my neutral feedback or punish the buyer in any way. Ebay said there was no violation because he didn't directly threaten to leave me negative feedback. Anyone with a IQ over 30 knows exactly what the buyer meant by "before i leave you feedback".

All i could do was leave him a honest follow up feedbck

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Leaving an honest professional f/u reflects highly on the seller and badly on the buyer. Shame on Ebay for not being allowed to make a judgement call on the obvious. Everything has to be spelled out these days.

[lunalapin1912]

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@equid0x wrote:

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@lunalapin1912 wrote:

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@equid0x wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

@equid0x

I'm not sure why any feedback at all is warranted when a transaction is cancelled. Since there is no actual transaction, how can there be any feedback? The seller has a legal right to refuse service, whether the buyer likes it or not. 

You appear to be assuming that the only reason for a cancellation is due to the seller's having the right to refuse service.  That actually is not one of the reasons a seller can even file for a cancellation.  While a seller could do this, it isn't within the Ebay rules and this is Ebay's site, they set the rules.   You may want to revisit the User Agreement you agreed to so that you could use this site.

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I am well aware of eBay's policies. The cancellation reason doesn't matter. The seller can refuse to sell for any reason and there really is nothing eBay or anyone else can do about it. eBay can't force a seller to send an item any more than they can force a buyer to pay for it. There are theoretical contract issues at play but realistically, nobody is going to court over a cancelled sale - primarily because there aren't any actual provable damages. 

No transaction has occurred, so I don't see what there is to leave feedback about. Booting a seller for too many cancellations is eBay's business, and sure, they can sanction a seller from the platform for doing so, but that still doesn't complete the transaction. 

Leaving a neg on a cancellation strikes me as a somewhat childish, stamp my feet, "Wah, I didn't get what I wanted" reaction that serves no real purpose other than to stroke the ego of the buyer. In real life, things get cancelled sometimes, thats the way it is. Move on and buy the item from someone else. 

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Most people are not on Ebay for the fun of it.  We are shopping, want to get our item in the condition promised in a timely manner.   Not getting it and waiting for your money back  or worse having to fight to get your money back is not a positive experience.  I check my sellers' feedback for cancellations.  If they cancel, I don't want to deal with them.  I appreciate it when the buyer gives me fair warning that a seller  insn't trustworthy so I can find another seller.  Other sellers should appreciate the feedback system.  Think of how may more sales a trustworthy seller gets that would get instead of them going to a untrustworthy seller and possibly losing future business for all sellers.

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We are talking about cancellations, not all the other stuff you mentioned. Ever drive all the way to a B&M only to find the shelf empty of that widget you want to buy? Is the B&M untrustworthy now? Why the double standard?

I recognize what Mam mentioned earlier, but this is not the norm in my experience. In all my years on here I think I've only ever had one cancellation from a seller. Painting all eBay sellers with a negative brush because of The actions of a bad actor is pretty egregious considering there are millions of vendors here.

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I've been on Ebay since the second month and cancellations have always been a problem.   There is a reason Ebay restricts the amount of cancels a seller can do.  If you don't like Ebay policy you don't have to take it.  

[castlemagicmemories]

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@lunalapin1912 wrote:

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@equid0x wrote:

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@lunalapin1912 wrote:

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@equid0x wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

@equid0x

I'm not sure why any feedback at all is warranted when a transaction is cancelled. Since there is no actual transaction, how can there be any feedback? The seller has a legal right to refuse service, whether the buyer likes it or not. 

You appear to be assuming that the only reason for a cancellation is due to the seller's having the right to refuse service.  That actually is not one of the reasons a seller can even file for a cancellation.  While a seller could do this, it isn't within the Ebay rules and this is Ebay's site, they set the rules.   You may want to revisit the User Agreement you agreed to so that you could use this site.

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I am well aware of eBay's policies. The cancellation reason doesn't matter. The seller can refuse to sell for any reason and there really is nothing eBay or anyone else can do about it. eBay can't force a seller to send an item any more than they can force a buyer to pay for it. There are theoretical contract issues at play but realistically, nobody is going to court over a cancelled sale - primarily because there aren't any actual provable damages. 

No transaction has occurred, so I don't see what there is to leave feedback about. Booting a seller for too many cancellations is eBay's business, and sure, they can sanction a seller from the platform for doing so, but that still doesn't complete the transaction. 

Leaving a neg on a cancellation strikes me as a somewhat childish, stamp my feet, "Wah, I didn't get what I wanted" reaction that serves no real purpose other than to stroke the ego of the buyer. In real life, things get cancelled sometimes, thats the way it is. Move on and buy the item from someone else. 

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Most people are not on Ebay for the fun of it.  We are shopping, want to get our item in the condition promised in a timely manner.   Not getting it and waiting for your money back  or worse having to fight to get your money back is not a positive experience.  I check my sellers' feedback for cancellations.  If they cancel, I don't want to deal with them.  I appreciate it when the buyer gives me fair warning that a seller  insn't trustworthy so I can find another seller.  Other sellers should appreciate the feedback system.  Think of how may more sales a trustworthy seller gets that would get instead of them going to a untrustworthy seller and possibly losing future business for all sellers.

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We are talking about cancellations, not all the other stuff you mentioned. Ever drive all the way to a B&M only to find the shelf empty of that widget you want to buy? Is the B&M untrustworthy now? Why the double standard?

I recognize what Mam mentioned earlier, but this is not the norm in my experience. In all my years on here I think I've only ever had one cancellation from a seller. Painting all eBay sellers with a negative brush because of The actions of a bad actor is pretty egregious considering there are millions of vendors here.

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I've been on Ebay since the second month and cancellations have always been a problem.   There is a reason Ebay restricts the amount of cancels a seller can do.  If you don't like Ebay policy you don't have to take it.  

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I agree.  It's not painting all sellers with a negative brush because of one bad experience.  It's the accumulated effect of experiences that leads to buyer dissatisfaction and the loss of those buyers.  It's one of the frequent buyer gripes on the Buying Board, and as you state, it is hardly new, more like a perennial problem.  

[castlemagicmemories]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

You can't always get what you want.

But you might get what you need. --- Sir Michael Jagger.

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Absolutely!

[castlemagicmemories]

You get angry, they get angry and it gets very ugly. 

So true.  You probably have better results from the way you handle things, thus less stress for you.

[muttlymob]

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@tunicaslot wrote:

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Leaving an honest professional f/u reflects highly on the seller and badly on the buyer. Shame on Ebay for not being allowed to make a judgement call on the obvious. Everything has to be spelled out these days.

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Like maybe "follow up".

Did a doubletake on that abbreviation.

hahahahaha!

[r-treasurechest]

If Ebay had no sellers they would be out of business. We are the ones that make them their money but they don't care.

[equid0x]

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

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@lunalapin1912 wrote:

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@equid0x wrote:

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@lunalapin1912 wrote:

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@equid0x wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

@equid0x

I'm not sure why any feedback at all is warranted when a transaction is cancelled. Since there is no actual transaction, how can there be any feedback? The seller has a legal right to refuse service, whether the buyer likes it or not. 

You appear to be assuming that the only reason for a cancellation is due to the seller's having the right to refuse service.  That actually is not one of the reasons a seller can even file for a cancellation.  While a seller could do this, it isn't within the Ebay rules and this is Ebay's site, they set the rules.   You may want to revisit the User Agreement you agreed to so that you could use this site.

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I am well aware of eBay's policies. The cancellation reason doesn't matter. The seller can refuse to sell for any reason and there really is nothing eBay or anyone else can do about it. eBay can't force a seller to send an item any more than they can force a buyer to pay for it. There are theoretical contract issues at play but realistically, nobody is going to court over a cancelled sale - primarily because there aren't any actual provable damages. 

No transaction has occurred, so I don't see what there is to leave feedback about. Booting a seller for too many cancellations is eBay's business, and sure, they can sanction a seller from the platform for doing so, but that still doesn't complete the transaction. 

Leaving a neg on a cancellation strikes me as a somewhat childish, stamp my feet, "Wah, I didn't get what I wanted" reaction that serves no real purpose other than to stroke the ego of the buyer. In real life, things get cancelled sometimes, thats the way it is. Move on and buy the item from someone else. 

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Most people are not on Ebay for the fun of it.  We are shopping, want to get our item in the condition promised in a timely manner.   Not getting it and waiting for your money back  or worse having to fight to get your money back is not a positive experience.  I check my sellers' feedback for cancellations.  If they cancel, I don't want to deal with them.  I appreciate it when the buyer gives me fair warning that a seller  insn't trustworthy so I can find another seller.  Other sellers should appreciate the feedback system.  Think of how may more sales a trustworthy seller gets that would get instead of them going to a untrustworthy seller and possibly losing future business for all sellers.

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We are talking about cancellations, not all the other stuff you mentioned. Ever drive all the way to a B&M only to find the shelf empty of that widget you want to buy? Is the B&M untrustworthy now? Why the double standard?

I recognize what Mam mentioned earlier, but this is not the norm in my experience. In all my years on here I think I've only ever had one cancellation from a seller. Painting all eBay sellers with a negative brush because of The actions of a bad actor is pretty egregious considering there are millions of vendors here.

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I've been on Ebay since the second month and cancellations have always been a problem.   There is a reason Ebay restricts the amount of cancels a seller can do.  If you don't like Ebay policy you don't have to take it.  

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I agree.  It's not painting all sellers with a negative brush because of one bad experience.  It's the accumulated effect of experiences that leads to buyer dissatisfaction and the loss of those buyers.  It's one of the frequent buyer gripes on the Buying Board, and as you state, it is hardly new, more like a perennial problem.  

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So, just to be clear, do you think a buyer would stop buying on say, the River, because one of their transactions was cancelled? This can and does happen on other platforms and in the real world. Hardly anything new here. 

[emerald40]

Yes it can sometimes happen.

But sellers here were taking advantage of it.

They were listing at .99 to get better placement.  They were not using a reserve to avoid paying the high fee.

And then cancelling because they were not going to get the price they wanted.

I encountered a lot of them.  So what buyer is going to bid and wait 7 days and wonder if the seller is just going to flake out on the transaction.

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

If eBay had no buyersthey would be out of business too. Right now there are too many sellers for the number of buyers. Both groups are critical but buyers are harder to attract and keep.

[equid0x]

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@emerald40 wrote:

Yes it can sometimes happen.

But sellers here were taking advantage of it.

They were listing at .99 to get better placement.  They were not using a reserve to avoid paying the high fee.

And then cancelling because they were not going to get the price they wanted.

I encountered a lot of them.  So what buyer is going to bid and wait 7 days and wonder if the seller is just going to flake out on the transaction.

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Well, emarald40, I've already posted my defacto legal stance on such behavior in another thread where my comments have been magically redacted by eBay after being reported. 

In fact, it seems every time I make such legal references, my comments are magically redacted. 

To reiterate my points would require re-posting the banned material. I'm not going to fall into that trap again, although I will point out that eBay is now aware of the actions of those parties who will keep reporting such material as is allowable by the rules. 

We can summarize by saying, redacting bids or auctions is not legal. It doesn't matter if it happens in the physical world or eBay. My position is that both eBay sellers and buyers ought not be doing that, and that it is against eBay policies. 

And that's all I'm going to say about that. 

[equid0x]

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

If eBay had no buyersthey would be out of business too. Right now there are too many sellers for the number of buyers. Both groups are critical but buyers are harder to attract and keep.

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I disgagree. Way more sellers than buyers. If what you said holds true, then there would be way more stores in the world with no traffic, and this closing down.