Accepted cancellation by buyer's request and lost money?

[classical-lps]

Is this for real? So, buyer from China buys 3 of our items and pays through PayPal immediately. 15 minutes later we receive request to cancel the order, which we accepted, we didn't ship it yet. To our bitter surprise PayPal refunded full amount from our money, fee not paid by PayPal. So we paid 4 USD fees for receiving payment and 15 minutes later eBay or PayPal refunded buyer in full, not covering the fee. Is there a catch? What can I do? I mean how is this possible!? We need to restock/relist and all that for nothing and then even pay extra for being screwed? What's going on?

[dhbookds]

You need to protest to paypal...........In the last yr, they have begun keeping their entire fee on a refund. 

[ed8108]

Doing business has unfair costs & risks.

[classical-lps]

But sale happened on eBay and eBay asked me to accept cancellation and refunded buyer. I didn't do anything on PayPal. Does it mean I should not have accepted the cancellation?

No, I mean it, is this really so? We have been kind enough and accepted canceling the order, as per message received from eBay and then WE paid 4 USD for that? This just can't be true!?

[ittybitnot]

 I mean how is this possible!? 

Those that control the money control the outcome.  PayPal has decided to keep all the fees in a refund situation.  On the other hand, buyers cannot cancel a sale.  They can only "request" a seller to do so.  Though it means losing money for a seller to cancel once payment has been made, the decision to lose "some" now as opposed to shipping and facing the possibility of losing MORE at a later time due to a SNAD complaint is something a seller must consider. 

[mtgraves7984]

I'm with @ittybitnot. As a seller, I weigh the loss of a cancellation against the possibility of a false NAD claim.

[pburn]

PayPal is a money processor. That's literally their business--it's what they do to generate income for the company, just like selling tangible goods. They provide a service and charge a fee for it. 

The buyer paid via PayPal, PayPal processed the payment, and delivered the funds to you. And they charged you for that service. 

You then refunded the buyer, so PayPal processed the refund, and delivered the funds back to the buyer. They performed that service free. You're lucky they didn't charge for that service, but it's their policy to process refunds without charge.

Now, tell me why you would expect PayPal to process the payment for your transaction without charge? 

[mr_lincoln]

@classical-lps   Yes, PayPal started doing that earlier this year I believe.  Keep in mind they are loosing fees on billions of dollars that will be processed through eBay's Managed payments program, by sometime in 2021 ALL Selling accounts (with some exceptions) will be placed in Managed Payments.

They decided NOT to refund their fees on any Returns ... I guess that extends to Cancellations now too.   

[1tuna]

...........general reply............

its been that way for a while............I am happy you were able to make a refund...........many sellers now find themselves in the unfortunate postion of having a failed refund on a friday and the need for a few extra dollars in paypal.........that dreaded wait to transfer money from your bank into paypal can be avoided.

[kensgiftshop]

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@classical-lps wrote:

Is this for real?

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Ya, it's real.

Pay Pal quit refunding their fee's almost a year ago.

[pburn]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

Yes, PayPal started doing that earlier this year I believe.

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October 11, 2019.

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

 Keep in mind they are loosing [sic] fees on billions of dollars that will be processed through eBay's Managed payments program . . .

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PayPal has customers other than eBay sellers. Virtually every online retail website from which I purchase offers payment through PayPal. Just for kicks, I looked it up. One website (merchantmaverick.com), claimed PayPal has "more than 17 million merchants."

As a merchant offering PayPal as a payment alternative for buyers, eBay will still be providing revenue to PayPal every time a buyer uses it to make a purchase.

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

They decided NOT to refund their fees on any Returns ... I guess that extends to Cancellations now too.   

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It always did. If the buyer has paid and then cancels, PayPal has performed the same service required for a refund for a return.

[classical-lps]

OK, if I knew it I simply wouldn't accept cancellation. Seriously. Even risking SNAD case. Our DSR for condition says it all. And when added there was failed attempt to cancel it let's see who wins it in the end. Besides, we accept returns, no problem. But who needs all of this? I understand PayPal is money processing business, but either eBay either them should provide reasonable business rules here. In cases like this it's buyer's fault, so buyer should be charged all corresponding fees for wrongdoing, why seller who did nothing wrong!?

This is all plain wrong.

[cody.-33]

It's the golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules.

[ittybitnot]

Our DSR for condition says it all. And when added there was failed attempt to cancel it let's see who wins it in the end. Besides, we accept returns, no problem.

We all see the logic in what your are saying.  Unfortunately,  there is no seller protection for a SNAD case anymore, and you will have to front the money to a buyer in China (in this case)  for the return should a claim be made.  Your tenure, your DSR reputation, your description or photos, or any correspondence via eBay messages NO LONGER MATTER.  It is the new and improved streamlined simplified enhanced ebay experience. 

Yes, it would be nice if sellers could deduct the fees incurred for a cancellation, and still get refunded the final value fees.   Which makes me think as well,  does ebay refund the final value fees they charged on shipping?  They used to not do that, and haven't even thought about it in a long time. 

[classical-lps]

This all is eBay's fault and just one consequence of their policy to "make buyers safe and happy at all cost". Who's cost? I have nothing against efforts to protect buyers and make them happy, in contrary, we do everything possible to make it so, but what eBay is doing is simply gone too far and is not helping. Buyers can now do whatever they want, eBay has turned into goldmine for frauders. And not only that, with new option to buy as a guest they have let in thousands and thousands of inexperienced buyers who (big share) do not know what they are doing and how eBay works. We recently received negative feedback from a lady who had no clue where and how she has purchased what she did, but saw eBay name on packing and found first purchase she did (as a guest!) on eBay and simply posted negative feedback. Our item was only shipped out. And then real pain with explaining this has nothing to do with us and trying to help her with the problem she has with other purchase and no help from eBay whatsoever. So we are there to help/fix the mess somebody caused by just utter greed? or frustration with what, Bezos? We want to be as successful as he is, we will do even stupid things and then let our sellers fix it. Wow! With rules as they are now you can basically do what you want as a buyer - you can even ruin your competition - simply go and make huge orders from guest account(s), pay them from PayPal and cancel them, eBay will basically force you to follow the procedure, from message to accept the cancellation to decision in favor of a buyer in SNAD case if you decide not to accept it! So mathematically they can force their own sellers to pay fees to PayPal for no business done? Is that so?

Come on!, will somebody wake up! I'm here for 20 years and what is being done lately simply makes no sense. It will backfire. You can't run business (or do anything else in life) if it's JUST AND ONLY for the money. At least you can't do it right.