About those free returns...

[sharingtheland]

I have no idea if anyone here is selling anything like small furniture but here's my story about the competition.

I ordered two ottoman/stool things from All Modern (Wayfair company) which were delivered today and a few of the super cute little gold ball feet were missing paint in small spots from poor packaging.  I filled out the very simple return form and included photos.  I was dreading the trip to FedEx which is 10 miles in horrid traffic to ship them back.

Within 8 hours I had a full refund - $450 - and was told to donate or give away the damaged pieces.   No need to return.

I just checked similar new items here and almost all of them are much more than I paid, of course require buyer pays return shipping and most have 20% restocking fee.

Now, at which site will I look for another ottoman/stool ?

Not saying we can do anything about it or buyer pays return shipping is bad or anything negative about ebay/sellers.  Just that's what we're up against in this day and age.

[tunicaslot]

To defend sharing - when you are spending alot of money on something - you expect it to come as described. There should be no need to touch up something or mend a tear on new merchandise. If people don't want to go through the hassle of a return - then yes - it's your choice to pick up new legs or paint to fix it.

[sharingtheland]

Geez, people (some people).  The thread isn't about me and what I am going to do with the ottomans; it's about very liberal policies at other mega online retailers with which we, as small sellers, simply cannot compete.  And ebay is trying to force us to compete with those mega sites with policies such as free returns, etc.

To whomever posted Wayfair's return policies:  I've been a long time Wayfair* customer and returned more than a few items in the past; some at my expense, some at Wayfair's expense.  Wayfair still loves me. 

The ottomans were dropshipped from Savafieh and, obviously, both companies decided the return shipping was not worth it for damaged items.  For $450, I do not expect to have to run to Lowe's and buy some type of paint for all 8 feet since I'd never be able to touch up the original burnished gold finish.

Again, this isn't about me.  I was trying to give a firsthand example of what we're facing and the resulting long downhill slide we're in here.  A sad realization for me when I received that $450.

*Wayfair also owns Joss & Main (ever watch Propety Brothers?), All Modern, Birch Lane and Perigold.  Returns are all handled under the Wayfair umbrella.   Williams-Sonoma owns Pottery Barn, PBTeen, Pottery Barn Kids, West Elm, Rejuvenation, Williams-Sonoma Home and Mark and Graham.  See the trend?   

[retrose1]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

*Wayfair also owns Joss & Main (ever watch Propety Brothers?), All Modern, Birch Lane and Perigold.  Returns are all handled under the Wayfair umbrella.   Williams-Sonoma owns Pottery Barn, PBTeen, Pottery Barn Kids, West Elm, Rejuvenation, Williams-Sonoma Home and Mark and Graham.  See the trend?   

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I don't see the trend because I don't pay attention to trendy decorating companies.  But I do know that Banana Republic owns Gap and Old Navy and that tells me that the lower stores means lower quality the further down you go.  

Which is what I thought when you commented that the company you bought from was a division of Wayfair.  That perhaps the dings might not have been from actual poor packing and shipping to you and that maybe Wayfair dumps it's damaged merchandise through another company to keep their rep and hope that very few will actually complain and demand a return for something so minor.

Your story (and your later comment about having to return other items back to them) convinces me that I will NEVER order anything through Wayfair.  That if they are overcharging so much to be able to have free shipping AND to just refund any minor complaint, it tells me that their quality is very poor and their markup is way too high.  Thanks for the info.

[gracieallen01]

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@ted_200 wrote:

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@chrysylys wrote:

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@pburn wrote:

I don't understand the point of pasting ... return policy in its entirety in your post. Was there something in particular to which you were trying to draw our attention? I read the whole thing and didn't have a clue what you were trying to get across.

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Me neither.

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I think the point was that their posted policies and what happened with the OP are not the same things. 

I have no idea why they would have done what they did, rather than going with their stated policies.  I assume it's the "well, it's damaged, we don't want it back anyhow, there's no point in sinking more money into it, just refund and be done with it" idea. 

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I wonder if they were something they had already gotten back once, but didn't find anything wrong the first time?

[chrysylys]

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@retrose1 wrote:

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Your story (and your later comment about having to return other items back to them) convinces me that I will NEVER order anything through Wayfair.  That if they are overcharging so much to be able to have free shipping AND to just refund any minor complaint, it tells me that their quality is very poor and their markup is way too high.  Thanks for the info.

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That's another reason I don't buy from 'too big' companies.  WF has been in a  few of those specially selected seller groups on those 20% off promos.  I checked their prices here on a  few things I was looking for and even with the extra 20% coupon, they were still too high priced compared with my local stores.

I say the same thing about companies that advertise excessively (like a couple of insurance companies with famous ad campaigns).  If they can afford that much ad time, their prices are too high.

[edrud0]

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

Yep, people tend to forget that the little guy has to compete with the big guys, and nowadays the average buyer doesn't/can't/won't differentiate between the two.  

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I think the average eBay buyer doesn't understand that eBay is made up of many sellers. They have come to expect a certain degree of customer service from larger retail websites.

[percgrabbe-0]

Wayfair sold you a damaged item out of their returns pile for full price online. You didnt like it. Rather than let you neg them-- they let you keep it. It would be too expensive for them to pay for return shipping and lose more money.  Then they write down the loss at the end of the year. 

[sharingtheland]

The point of the trend example is that many companies use the same return policies because they are actually all one company and many people don't realize that.

Wayfair isn't a "trendy decorating company."  It's a huge ecommerce furniture site; I believe it is the largest in sales (over $1b annually).

I'm not going to argue about "never buying from Wayfair because you'd have to return things" (paraphrased); who doesn't return items?   I have been for the most part pleased with any purchases.  Wayfair and its divisions dropship, thus keeping costs down.

I'm going to guess that Safavieh took the hit on my refund, not Wayfair.   

And, well, yeah, a top that costs $98 at Banana Republic might be of higher quality than the one for $9.80 at Old Navy.  

[keziak]

IF what I sell proves to be defective/unsaleable I also give a full return and tell them to dispose of the item on their end, no need to deal with returning it.

[sharingtheland]

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@percgrabbe-0 wrote:

Wayfair sold you a damaged item out of their returns pile for full price online. You didnt like it. Rather than let you neg them-- they let you keep it. It would be too expensive for them to pay for return shipping and lose more money.  Then they write down the loss at the end of the year. 

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Actually, the items were on sale.  Wayfair dropshipped my items from Safavieh.  I could post the photos of the packaging so you could see how/why the feet were damaged but I don't think that is germane to the how this discussion has evolved.

Again, I was simply trying to point out how returns are handled by the big guys and how we, small sellers, can't do that.  I was also trying to describe how easy it was, with no glitches and with instant response and further communication from Wayfair.

These places didn't exist when ebay started but now they do and how does ebay handle that?  Does ebay wish, desperately, that it had seen this trend coming?  Of course, if ebay had seen it, we'd all have been out of business long ago.

Wayfair doesn't give one tiddly hoot if I "neg" them.  

[sharingtheland]

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@keziak wrote:

IF what I sell proves to be defective/unsaleable I also give a full return and tell them to dispose of the item on their end, no need to deal with returning it.

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ITA and I have done that more than a few times.  Point is, I can't afford to do it more than a few times.

[keziak]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

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@keziak wrote:

IF what I sell proves to be defective/unsaleable I also give a full return and tell them to dispose of the item on their end, no need to deal with returning it.

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ITA and I have done that more than a few times.  Point is, I can't afford to do it more than a few times.

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I'm not in a good position to do it either but if I'd made a mistake (such as failing to identify scratches on a set of DVDs, or missing DVDs in a set) then it's on me to make it right and suck up the cost of doing business.

The other day I got some items from an Amazon third-party business with parts that came off in shipping. I  let them know and said I would glue the pieces together, that they should look at their packaging method. They sent me a $5 refund.  Not very impressive but I DID  keep the items after all.

[retrose1]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

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@keziak wrote:

IF what I sell proves to be defective/unsaleable I also give a full return and tell them to dispose of the item on their end, no need to deal with returning it.

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ITA and I have done that more than a few times.  Point is, I can't afford to do it more than a few times.

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If something is damaged, I don't list it as perfectly good.  Example, I am making up listings and one item has a stain on it that I caught when I was taking measurements.  Stopped making the listing and it goes in the garage sale pile.  The point is that the merchandise should be checked before it is listed and before it is shipped out.  Then you won't have to be handing out freebies on a regular basis and your business will go on.

Many companies use other ids/sites to get rid of lower quality/damaged merchandise so the main companies rep can continue as quality.  When you said that of course a Banana Republic shirt would cost more than an Old Navy one - I have to ask why you would think that?  They are both making their items in China, made of the same materials, in the same type of sweat shops - so why would you expect one to cost more than the other.  The brand name's rep and style of course.

But if you really looked at the ottoman you bought and took a serious look at one that costs a lot less at say Value Furniture, you would see that they are probably made of the same particle board/plywood, finished with the same spray on chemicals, and covered in the polyester and stuffed with the same foam.  The only difference is maybe the style and the pedestal the buyers of the brand name put the item on and are willing to pay more for the bragging rights of saying that they bought it from xxx.

My original point was that the item was probably cheaply made and the main expense for the company was shipping and so they can afford to hand out freebies.

[percgrabbe-0]

How do you know the box wasnt damaged before they even shipped it. Big ticket stores have a tendency to do what I was saying etc. 

[sharingtheland]

(1)Many companies use other ids/sites to get rid of lower quality/damaged merchandise so the main companies rep can continue as quality.  (2)When you said that of course a Banana Republic shirt would cost more than an Old Navy one - I have to ask why you would think that? 

Numbers are mine.

(1)  Wayfair dropships; it has contracts with many, many reputable manufacturers who aren't unloading low quality/damaged merchandise.  Safavieh is a huge company that sells on many sites and in many b&m stores.  They aren't deliberately sending out damaged merchandise via Wayfair or anywhere else.

(2)I think that because I've shopped in both places for a long, long time; I have daughters.  The clothing may be made in the same places but the difference in quality is usually obvious.  Not that Banana Republic is all that special but it's better than Old Navy.  (Disclaimer:  I have never bought anything for myself in Old Navy, just for the kids.  I have bought items for myself in Banana Republic.)

I and my shipping department check every itm as carefully as possible before listing or shipping.  Obviously, we can't checked new, sealed items.   I don't  sell anything that I know is damaged, either. 

I'm agreeing with keziah about refunding an ebay sale and letting the buyer keep the item when the buyer opens a new, sealed box and tells me something doesn't work or is broken.   Or a giant 3-tier serving dish arrived broken.  Or an opened tube of face cream made the buyer's skin red and irritated.  I'm not going to pay return shipping for an opened or broken something I can't resell.  I believed about 15%-20% of those claims, btw.  Wait.  15%-20% may be too high on the beliefometer.