About those free returns...

[sharingtheland]

I have no idea if anyone here is selling anything like small furniture but here's my story about the competition.

I ordered two ottoman/stool things from All Modern (Wayfair company) which were delivered today and a few of the super cute little gold ball feet were missing paint in small spots from poor packaging.  I filled out the very simple return form and included photos.  I was dreading the trip to FedEx which is 10 miles in horrid traffic to ship them back.

Within 8 hours I had a full refund - $450 - and was told to donate or give away the damaged pieces.   No need to return.

I just checked similar new items here and almost all of them are much more than I paid, of course require buyer pays return shipping and most have 20% restocking fee.

Now, at which site will I look for another ottoman/stool ?

Not saying we can do anything about it or buyer pays return shipping is bad or anything negative about ebay/sellers.  Just that's what we're up against in this day and age.

[southern*sweet*tea]

@sharingtheland

Regardless of the outcome, did Wayfair 1: handle your return in a professional manner, or

2: did they handle it the "Ebay way" -accuse you of being a scammer, block you, leave ranting feedback ("LAIR!! SCAMER!! TRIED TO RIP ME OFF!!)  and come to the boards hollering about your scam attempt? (yes, misspellings are intentional)

[retrose1]

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

@sharingtheland

Regardless of the outcome, did Wayfair 1: handle your return in a professional manner, or

2: did they handle it the "Ebay way" -accuse you of being a scammer, block you, leave ranting feedback ("LAIR!! SCAMER!! TRIED TO RIP ME OFF!!)  and come to the boards hollering about your scam attempt? (yes, misspellings are intentional)

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They handled it the 'official' ebay way by just giving the buyer an automatic full refund on a minor complaint and write it off rather than get it back, look it over and deal with the problem.

The accusation ranting way is the fed up ebay seller way.

[getitright1234]

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@percgrabbe-0 wrote:

Wayfair sold you a damaged item out of their returns pile for full price online. You didnt like it. Rather than let you neg them-- they let you keep it. It would be too expensive for them to pay for return shipping and lose more money.  Then they write down the loss at the end of the year. 

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Which is why they instructed the OP to donate the item,  WF will be deducting the loss.   

[edrud0]

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@retrose1 wrote:

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

@sharingtheland

Regardless of the outcome, did Wayfair 1: handle your return in a professional manner, or

2: did they handle it the "Ebay way" -accuse you of being a scammer, block you, leave ranting feedback ("LAIR!! SCAMER!! TRIED TO RIP ME OFF!!)  and come to the boards hollering about your scam attempt? (yes, misspellings are intentional)

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They handled it the 'official' ebay way by just giving the buyer an automatic full refund on a minor complaint and write it off rather than get it back, look it over and deal with the problem.

The accusation ranting way is the fed up ebay seller way.

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So handling things in a professional manner and not hassling the buyer with a return is the wrong way to go? Give me a break.

[pvcliff]

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@chrysylys wrote:

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@sharingtheland wrote:

a few of the super cute little gold ball feet were missing paint in small spots from poor packaging. 

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What I would have done is got a little gold paint and touched them up without ever contactiing the company.

Complaints over minor things is what companies are facing these days.

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Agreed, but first I would ask the company if they had a touch-up kit they could send me.

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@edrud0 wrote:

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@retrose1 wrote:

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

@sharingtheland

Regardless of the outcome, did Wayfair 1: handle your return in a professional manner, or

2: did they handle it the "Ebay way" -accuse you of being a scammer, block you, leave ranting feedback ("LAIR!! SCAMER!! TRIED TO RIP ME OFF!!)  and come to the boards hollering about your scam attempt? (yes, misspellings are intentional)

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They handled it the 'official' ebay way by just giving the buyer an automatic full refund on a minor complaint and write it off rather than get it back, look it over and deal with the problem.

The accusation ranting way is the fed up ebay seller way.

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So handling things in a professional manner and not hassling the buyer with a return is the wrong way to go? Give me a break.

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Wayfair would be well within their rights to ask for a return, with no refund forthcoming until said item was returned, which is why my original statement said "regardless of outcome".

My point is they handled it PROFESSIONALLY, and not like far too many Ebay sellers would.

[terrycanarsky]

It's more a case of most buyers don't realize that eBay does not sell anything on their own.  Not even "ebay shipping supplies" (3rd party seller, no kidding).  eBay is not held responsible for anything, it only acts as the paid facilitator/selling venue.  The issues arise when it determines to put the vast majority of the responsibility for a transaction on the seller rather than also holding the buyer accountable.

I ordered and received a new electrical panel enclosure from A.  Since I am a Prime member, it arrived via UPS in two days, but the shipping box corners were banged up.  I immediately contacted A since they were the 'sellers' of record (bulk deal from one of their warehouses), filled out a return request with details, received a UPS label at their cost in email, and shipped it back this morning for a replacement.

The differences are slight but important.  The return request was immediately granted - within certain parameters.  The label was provided at no charge to me and a free pick-up was offered (though an adult needed to be home, and we work).  I could have requested a refund - upon receipt of the item at the returns  center and check to make sure my claims were substantiated.  If I requested a replacement and failed to return the item within 30 days, the full cost of the replacement (which is sent quickly) would be charged to my card.  Period.  The "seller" would not be out anything except the cost of shipping - and even that is theoretically covered somewhat by my Prime membership fee.

eBay should not be trying to out-Amazon Amazon or any other ecommerce store.  They don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the warehouses, they don't have the selling power, they don't have the negotiators, they don't have the coders, they don't have the innovation/innovators.  All they have are us sellers - and they are continuing to push us away in their quest to be the next biggest baddest ecommerce site.

YMMV

~M

[getitright1234]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

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@percgrabbe-0 wrote:

Wayfair sold you a damaged item out of their returns pile for full price online. You didnt like it. Rather than let you neg them-- they let you keep it. It would be too expensive for them to pay for return shipping and lose more money.  Then they write down the loss at the end of the year. 

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Actually, the items were on sale.  Wayfair dropshipped my items from Safavieh.  I could post the photos of the packaging so you could see how/why the feet were damaged but I don't think that is germane to the how this discussion has evolved.

Again, I was simply trying to point out how returns are handled by the big guys and how we, small sellers, can't do that.  I was also trying to describe how easy it was, with no glitches and with instant response and further communication from Wayfair.

These places didn't exist when ebay started but now they do and how does ebay handle that?  Does ebay wish, desperately, that it had seen this trend coming?  Of course, if ebay had seen it, we'd all have been out of business long ago.

Wayfair doesn't give one tiddly hoot if I "neg" them.  

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Wayfair Return policy is not that liberal.    They simply sold you a defective product and made the decision  not to invest anymore money into it.    

WF asked you to send them pictures of the defect:   they required proof of damages---eBAy does not require the buyer to prove proof of damages.    WF dropped shipped the item, so WF will likely be getting their money back from Safavieh. 

[getitright1234]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

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@percgrabbe-0 wrote:

Wayfair sold you a damaged item out of their returns pile for full price online. You didnt like it. Rather than let you neg them-- they let you keep it. It would be too expensive for them to pay for return shipping and lose more money.  Then they write down the loss at the end of the year. 

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Actually, the items were on sale.  Wayfair dropshipped my items from Safavieh.  I could post the photos of the packaging so you could see how/why the feet were damaged but I don't think that is germane to the how this discussion has evolved.

Again, I was simply trying to point out how returns are handled by the big guys and how we, small sellers, can't do that.  I was also trying to describe how easy it was, with no glitches and with instant response and further communication from Wayfair.

These places didn't exist when ebay started but now they do and how does ebay handle that?  Does ebay wish, desperately, that it had seen this trend coming?  Of course, if ebay had seen it, we'd all have been out of business long ago.

Wayfair doesn't give one tiddly hoot if I "neg" them.  

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Wayfair Return policy is not that liberal.    They simply sold you a defective product and made the decision  not to invest anymore money into it.    

WF asked you to send them pictures of the defect:   they required proof of damages---eBAy does not require the buyer to prove proof of damages.    WF dropped shipped the item, so WF will likely be getting their money back from Safavieh. 

[pvcliff]

Just a reply in general concerning Wayfair -- I don't recall what I was looking for on eBay, but Wayfair had the item listed here. I immediately went to the Wayfair website where the item was of course listed for less because they don't gave to give eBay a cut.

[getitright1234]

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

@sharingtheland

Regardless of the outcome, did Wayfair 1: handle your return in a professional manner, or

2: did they handle it the "Ebay way" -accuse you of being a scammer, block you, leave ranting feedback ("LAIR!! SCAMER!! TRIED TO RIP ME OFF!!)  and come to the boards hollering about your scam attempt? (yes, misspellings are intentional)

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WF required the OP/Buyer to provide proof of their claim and the OP/Buyer provided proof.   eBay accepts whatever the buyer tells them as the truth regards if the buyer's account is less than 10 minutes old compared to the seller's 15 year account in good standing .   

[sharingtheland]

Wayfair Return policy is not that liberal.    They simply sold you a defective product and made the decision  not to invest anymore money into it.    

WF asked you to send them pictures of the defect:   they required proof of damages---eBAy does not require the buyer to prove proof of damages.    WF dropped shipped the item, so WF will likely be getting their money back from Safavieh. 

Providing photos was optional.  I don't know what Wayfair's response would have been - most likely a prepaid return label with refund after items were received - if I hadn't sent good, detailed photos or if I hadn't sent any at all.   I've returned "did not like" items, also, and those situations were simple and easy other than I paid for return shipping.  I'm not saying Wayfair passes out money willy nilly.

There is a point at which shipping two large boxes back and forth is not cost effective, which is obviously what Wayfair/Savafieh decided.   The refund did not occur as soon as I sent the request and photos; I'm sure the situation was "discussed" internetly with Safavieh.

Wayfair holds money for 30 days, I believe, before remitting to the supplier (nice gig if you can get it!).  I'm not sure what you mean about Wayfair getting its money back from Safavieh.

[callahanmagic]

" ... ... it's about very liberal policies at other mega online retailers with which we, as small sellers, simply cannot compete.  And ebay is trying to force us to compete with those mega sites with policies such as free returns, etc." @sharingtheland

I understood your purpose in your OP.  

Unlike the big stores that have premium retail insurance that covers almost anything under the sun -

an independent merchant especially small seller on this platform may not have such.  Sure, there's the built-in, self-insurance 'piggy' bank to cover the unexpected.  Still, the new Return Simplified Policies, especially the "Free Returns" largely stump any small merchant who may or may not have built-in-self-insurance. 

$450.00 is a big hit to small merchants on this platform. Then again, the saying of  "do not list anything  ... that is too much $$$ to lose"; ... "do not any list any high $$$ that is more/less than FBs ... ..." will come into careful consideration to all who wants to sell or continue to sell on this platform.

That is NOT to say that - merchants who have lower $ pricing products CAN absorb the loss due to unjustifiable frequent returns (be they Buyer pays shipping or Free Returns). 

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Lucas

*still rollin' with the punches*

Sophie Forever Sidekick: Apr 2007 to Sep 05, 2017

[sharingtheland]

eBay accepts whatever the buyer tells them as the truth regards if the buyer's account is less than 10 minutes old compared to the seller's 15 year account in good standing .   

Oh, that is so patently and painfully true.   

[getitright1234]

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@callahanmagic wrote:

" ... ... it's about very liberal policies at other mega online retailers with which we, as small sellers, simply cannot compete.  And ebay is trying to force us to compete with those mega sites with policies such as free returns, etc." @sharingtheland

I understood your purpose in your OP.  

Unlike the big stores that have premium retail insurance that covers almost anything under the sun -

an independent merchant especially small seller on this platform may not have such.  Sure, there's the built-in, self-insurance 'piggy' bank to cover the unexpected.  Still, the new Return Simplified Policies, especially the "Free Returns" largely stump any small merchant who may or may not have built-in-self-insurance. 

$450.00 is a big hit to small merchants on this platform. Then again, the saying of  "do not list anything  ... that is too much $$$ to lose"; ... "do not any list any high $$$ that is more/less than FBs ... ..." will come into careful consideration to all who wants to sell or continue to sell on this platform.

That is NOT to say that - merchants who have lower $ pricing products CAN absorb the loss due to unjustifiable frequent returns (be they Buyer pays shipping or Free Returns). 

-

Lucas

*still rollin' with the punches*

Sophie Forever Sidekick: Apr 2007 to Sep 05, 2017

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The have their own website, plenty of product to absorb an occassional loss and they do not have to worry as much about visiability.