A note about feedback extortion

[aldente28]

Buyer:

"Hi, just wanted to let you know I had a small issue with my order. I'd like a partial refund"

Seller:

"Hi, I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks for confirming with a pic. Would you be OK with a 20% refund?"

Buyer:

"I'd like a 50% refund. I wanted to get in touch with you before leaving feedback"

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NOTE TO EBAY: This is feedback extortion. You should consider the mere mention of feedback in any refund request from a buyer to be extortion because this is the effect it has.

[monster-deals]

When a buyer leads with a partial refund request it is time to say "return for full refund"

[inhawaii]

Although i agree with you, ebay will not consider it feedback extortion.

The buyer has to say "If you don't give me a 50% refund, i will leave you negative feeback."

[iart]

I agree it's a feedback threat.

We would have tried to offer a choice. "We can send you a 20% rebate or you can return for a full refund."

Asking if a number is 'OK' is asking for a counter.

[lamber9347]

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@aldente28 wrote:

Buyer:

"Hi, just wanted to let you know I had a small issue with my order. I'd like a partial refund"

Seller:

"Hi, I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks for confirming with a pic. Would you be OK with a 20% refund?"

Buyer:

"I'd like a 50% refund. I wanted to get in touch with you before leaving feedback"

----------------

NOTE TO EBAY: This is feedback extortion. You should consider the mere mention of feedback in any refund request from a buyer to be extortion because this is the effect it has.

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While I agree with you that it should count as FB extortion, but it won't, I also feel you made a huge error in not responding please return for full refund. If you try to play a bad buyer you will lose on this platform....

[aldente28]

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@monster-deals wrote:

When a buyer leads with a partial refund request it is time to say "return for full refund"

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Yes but (a) they can still leave negative feedback and (b) I would get docked in seller metrics for the return. A double whammy. This is the calculus.

[mod-designs4u]

Why don't you ascertain the buyer's issue with "dialog" before offering a partial refund? Photos can be manipulated but words cannot.  IMO, the partial refund approach is foolish for the seller. Either the item was represented accurately with the photos and Item Description or it wasn't. My advice for sellers would be to completely avoid this practice to thwart an unscrupulous buyer's "shakedown" of an inexperienced or coddling seller which gives our entire online marketplace a poor reputation for offering inferior goods. Based on this post I wouldn't give this buyer any refund unless I was certain I screwed up...If I screwed up I'd give the buyer a complete refund and let him keep the item. That's how I've operated my small eBay business for the last 20 years and it works pretty well. Good luck!  

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@aldente28 wrote:

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@monster-deals wrote:

When a buyer leads with a partial refund request it is time to say "return for full refund"

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Yes but (a) they can still leave negative feedback So what? Cross that bridge when you get there.  and (b) I would get docked in seller metrics for the return. If you respond in the case and issue the shipping label, you will NOT get docked in your metrics. Yes, you will have a return, which is not an issue unless you have a bunch of them. A double whammy. This is the calculus.

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[aldente28]

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@lamber9347 wrote:

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@aldente28 wrote:

Buyer:

"Hi, just wanted to let you know I had a small issue with my order. I'd like a partial refund"

Seller:

"Hi, I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks for confirming with a pic. Would you be OK with a 20% refund?"

Buyer:

"I'd like a 50% refund. I wanted to get in touch with you before leaving feedback"

----------------

NOTE TO EBAY: This is feedback extortion. You should consider the mere mention of feedback in any refund request from a buyer to be extortion because this is the effect it has.

---

While I agree with you that it should count as FB extortion, but it won't, I also feel you made a huge error in not responding please return for full refund. If you try to play a bad buyer you will lose on this platform....

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I rolled the dice and negotiated.

I countered with 30%.

She agreed.

I replied that I would go ahead and do 35% just because.

She left positive feedback.

This time it worked out. I got lucky.

I have another buyer who just last week left neg fb, requested a return, said he would remove the neg fb "when he got his refund", then returned an empty box. I reported the extortion to ebay. They declined to remove the fb. Hopefully it will go away when the partial refund for "returning a totally different item or empty box" goes though.

I'd be happy if "seller protections" were beefed up a bit in this area.

[inhawaii]

If you accepted the return, alot of times the buyer doesn't go through with the hassle of returning. You win.

If you accepted the return, you refund when you get the item back. No seller/metrics penalty.

You still have to worry about getting a negative feedback though.

[teltuooutlet]

Whenever there is an "issue" I will offer the buyer an option. 

A. I can offer you an "X"% discount if you would like to still keep the item.

B. You can return the item for a refund. 

While their feedback comment IS them using that as extortion, their wording is not what Ebay would consider extortion. 
If they said "refund me or else" then that would be clear extortion. 

Just tell them you cannot offer 50% and have them return the item for a refund.

[aldente28]

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@inhawaii wrote:

If you accepted the return, alot of times the buyer doesn't go through with the hassle of returning. You win.

If you accepted the return, you refund when you get the item back. No seller/metrics penalty.

You still have to worry about getting a negative feedback though.

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Yes, and returns do count against sellers in Seller Metrics. I am in a unique situation where I sell perishable items, and naturally, some of my items don't make it. Buyers don't know what to do so they just start clicking buttons, and I get a lot of  INAD and "does not match photos" and "items missing" returns even though this is natural and expected given what I sell, and my "Seller Metrics" scores are derived from an entire category that does not suffer from weather-related issues connected with selling perishable items. The result is that I am constantly at risk of being docked for high Seller Metrics. It doesn't matter how perfect my service, my account is at risk because ebay derives my Seller Metrics from "averages" across categories that do not apply.

[inhawaii]

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@aldente28 wrote:

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@inhawaii wrote:

If you accepted the return, alot of times the buyer doesn't go through with the hassle of returning. You win.

If you accepted the return, you refund when you get the item back. No seller/metrics penalty.

You still have to worry about getting a negative feedback though.

---

Yes, and returns do count against sellers in Seller Metrics. I am in a unique situation where I sell perishable items, and naturally, some of my items don't make it. Buyers don't know what to do so they just start clicking buttons, and I get a lot of  INAD and "does not match photos" and "items missing" returns even though this is natural and expected given what I sell, and my "Seller Metrics" scores are derived from an entire category that does not suffer from weather-related issues connected with selling perishable items. The result is that I am constantly at risk of being docked for high Seller Metrics. It doesn't matter how perfect my service, my account is at risk because ebay derives my Seller Metrics from "averages" across categories that do not apply.

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I haven't read it myself because i'm too lazy, but i spend quite a bit of time here. I've heard a lot of experienced sellers here  say as long as ebay doesn't have to step in and you handle the return on your own and refund the buyer, there are no seller/metrics penalties.   Now you've got me curious if this is correct or not.

[aldente28]

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@inhawaii wrote:

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@aldente28 wrote:

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@inhawaii wrote:

If you accepted the return, alot of times the buyer doesn't go through with the hassle of returning. You win.

If you accepted the return, you refund when you get the item back. No seller/metrics penalty.

You still have to worry about getting a negative feedback though.

---

Yes, and returns do count against sellers in Seller Metrics. I am in a unique situation where I sell perishable items, and naturally, some of my items don't make it. Buyers don't know what to do so they just start clicking buttons, and I get a lot of  INAD and "does not match photos" and "items missing" returns even though this is natural and expected given what I sell, and my "Seller Metrics" scores are derived from an entire category that does not suffer from weather-related issues connected with selling perishable items. The result is that I am constantly at risk of being docked for high Seller Metrics. It doesn't matter how perfect my service, my account is at risk because ebay derives my Seller Metrics from "averages" across categories that do not apply.

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I haven't read it myself because i'm too lazy, but i spend quite a bit of time here. I've heard a lot of experienced sellers here  say as long as ebay doesn't have to step in and you handle the return on your own and refund the buyer, there are no seller/metrics penalties.   Now you've got me curious if this is correct or not.

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I'm certain there are consequences to "very high" Service Metrics, which includes returns for I believe any reason other than "I changed my mind"

To make it easy, here is where you can see how ebay rates you compared to "peers". Based on past conversations, I know you're familiar with this. 

At: 

Performance/Service Metrics

Item not as described/Current rate/"See how you compare to your peers" tool tip:

"Your peers are sellers who list on the same listing site as yours, sell items in the same category and have similar listing attributes such as item price, estimated delivery dates, item condition, and return policy."

Then:

Service metrics policy

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-performance-policy/service-metrics-policy...

Item not as described
Your 'Item not as described' rate is the percentage of your transactions where buyers requested returns for the following reasons:

-Doesn't work or defective
-Doesn't match description or photos
-Wrong item sent
-Missing parts or pieces
-Arrived damaged
-Doesn't seem authentic

and...

Consequences of Very High rates
If you are evaluated as Very High, the following consequences may apply to your listings on the eBay sites and in the categories or shipping categories where the Very High evaluation applies:

Item not as described: An additional 5% final value fees for listings in the categories where you are currently evaluated as Very High

[vtgbeersigns]

Strange my only negative feedback and scams/returns are from new accounts , 5% FVF is extortion