04-09-2025 10:31 AM - edited 04-09-2025 10:33 AM
04-11-2025 11:23 AM
Is Trump our leader or not? This why I posted the facts above, in response to Meme.
Meme stated Trump is not a leader, but with no facts to back his claim, just more ad hominem. I validated why Trump is both our leader and a leader.
04-11-2025 11:25 AM - edited 04-11-2025 05:53 PM
Out of respect for you and the fact that you seem to be the sole representative of your side of the aisle (on this board) who hasn't lost your marbles and has the capacity for rational thought, I will concede that the definition you've provided is solid. A tax is "compulsory"...which is exactly what differentiates it from a tariff. The EU and much of the rest of the world have already demonstrated just exactly how this is so. The tariffs they have on our goods are so high that their citizens choose not to buy them. The tariff stands there blocking their access to goods they might otherwise want, but that they are not required to buy.
Your friend in VA has the option to NOT buy the tins from Canada. She can find a U.S. distributor (such as Uline), she can change the type of pie pan she uses (e.g. recyclable cardboard, plastic, etc.), or she can look for recycled pie pans/tins (my own mother could probably supply her with several dozen). Whichever way she goes, there is no compulsory requirement for her to buy her tins from Canada.
As for the U.S. demand question... that will ultimately drive the price of U.S. made pie tins down, not up. The greater the demand, the higher the volume of production, the higher the volume of production, the lower the cost of materials (buying in bulk ALWAYS drives the price down as the distributor circumvents many of the problems associated with small orders such as lost margins on things like shipping materials), the lower the cost of materials, the lower the cost to the end user.
For example, one of the many pharmaceutical containers that my father patented and then manufactured was an item called the 7Pack (China did go on to steal it eventually and now you can buy them for nothing on Alibaba and similar shlock sites). When sold individually, they ran about 12 dollars a piece. When sold to pharmacies in small bulk volume, the price dropped to approximately half. When sold to Walgreen's and Healthcare Logistics, the price dropped to about a buck and change per piece. Why? Because the labor to set up and produce 500 pieces wasn't much different than that required to produce 5,000. Additionally, when he purchased the materials required for production from his distributors, the cost of those materials dropped dramatically on very large orders for the same reason.
So, in sum, if you step back and consider all of this at a second or third order level of thought, you will probably be able to at least see the appeal of the current tariff situation to those of us who have lived our whole lives on the manufacturing/production side of things.
P.S. For what it's worth, both Walgreen's and Healthcare Logistics continued to buy from him right up until the day he dissolved the company at age 80, despite China's theft and low low prices.
04-11-2025 11:31 AM - edited 04-11-2025 11:31 AM
@gurlcat wrote:
@fbusoni wrote:... even Peter Navarro has made clear publicly that revenue from tariffs will "pay" for the administrations tax cuts over the next 10 years.
Navarro's go-to economics expert has been (for years) someone named Ron Vara. -A literally FAKE PERSON. Ron Vara is an anagram of Navarro.
Yes, I know. 😁
And Navarro is not the only "author" in this administration.
Have you checked out these pieces of scholarship?
04-11-2025 11:37 AM
Just an absolute car of circus clowns!!!
04-11-2025 11:42 AM - edited 04-11-2025 11:52 AM
@tarotfindsandmore wrote:Out of respect for you and the fact that you seem to be the sole representative of your side of the aisle (on this board) who hasn't lost your marbles and has the capacity for rational thought, I will concede that the definition you've provided is solid. A tax is "compulsory"...which is exactly what differentiates it from a tariff.
"My side of the aisle"?
What side of the aisle do you assume I sit on? 😂
As for your explication of supply and demand... my elementary understanding is that when supply is greater than demand, prices drop; when demand is greater than supply, prices rise. If there was an adequate supply of pie tins in the USA, prices would be competitive with those imported from Canada.
Yet they are not.
Nor is there any guarantee they ever will be... what happens if US pie tin manufacturers ALSO are dependent on Canadian aluminum?
Which of course raises the question: is a tariff in fact voluntary? In some cases, of course. But not in all. They can be a penalty under certain circumstances.
Which is why Americans are in an uproar, presumably.
04-11-2025 11:50 AM
In actual trade, the tariff on both sides - EU and US, has been about 1%.
04-11-2025 11:56 AM - edited 04-11-2025 11:57 AM
Apologies, I was given the impression you were opposed to the current administration and its moves, based on your posts. If I'm wrong, great!
In any event, I stand by my "explication". The supply/demand will level out. It's a given. The reason for that is pretty simple. We met the demand beautifully until the late 1970's because the overwhelming majority of the resources we need for production can be found right here in the U.S. (there's a great big Kaiser Aluminum factory sitting empty not ten miles from here). The resources we don't have readily available can be sourced from friendly nations who buy our goods (say someone like Greenland maybe?).
We effectively drove demand for our goods down by selling out to China. They were able to outproduce us for exactly the same reasons bulk items are cheaper than those purchased individually. The greedy American consumer wanted his pie tins for 8 cents instead of 9 so we now pay 15 cents because the companies that do produce them no longer have a demand for them large enough to offset the cost of producing them.
I'm not going to play the "what if?" game with you because I do have history on my side, and you cannot predict the future. I also know you are old enough to remember when we saw "Made in U.S.A." on far more of our daily essentials than we saw "Made in China" on.
Again, tariffs are voluntary. We did this to ourselves. We have to fix it ourselves. If it hurts for a while, so be it. Let it be a lesson to all of the young people that come after us to never let it happen again.
04-11-2025 11:57 AM
As the originator of this thread, I never thought it would have the traction it is experiencing...
that being said, this reply (242) "almost" got the coveted "Best Answer" green border......
I do love a spirited debate minus the scripted name calling from either side of the aisle
04-11-2025 11:57 AM
04-11-2025 12:02 PM
04-11-2025 12:07 PM - edited 04-11-2025 12:19 PM
I haven't called anyone names. I do think the left has completely lost the plot, but there isn't any person in particular that stands out in that regard. Nor do I think anyone in particular is worthy of being called names, despite the fact that I have been repeatedly called names (momo ring any bells?).
FWIW I also believe there are plenty of sane onlookers who do understand what I'm saying even if they disagree. I'm just a bit fed up with all the filth directed at the POTUS, the right, and really anyone who just doesn't agree with the left.
If I've offended you, I apologize. I'm a recovered leftie myself, and in my heart, I will always want "the little guy" to succeed.
BTW, you and I share the same first name. 🙂
04-11-2025 12:09 PM
You wrote, "The sum total of Mr. Trump's executive orders (EO)-- whether about immigration, deportation, tariffs, USG workers, University grants, or the USG "official" definition of a man and a woman -- are designed to test the boundaries of his seemingly limitless thirst for power."
Then you wrote this about Trump, "He already has made clear he will uphold the law and will appeal if he has to."
Your statements are contradictory. Is Donald Trump a blood thirsty tyrant or a lawman? Btw, the DNC and othe lib organizations, are using the last of our USAID money, employing hordes of lawyers to challenge as many Trump executuve orders as possible, just like they did his first term.
You state we're testing the guardrails, but most Americans feel libs are abusing the process and the Supreme Court, haphazardly challenging nearly every Trump executive order in a "seemingly" deranged manner.
Bill Clinton issued 364 executive orders, Barry (and Mike) issued 276 executive orders. Were they power hungry as well?
Your boy, Jimmy Carter, issued 320 executive orders plus he gave away the Panama Canal.
04-11-2025 12:16 PM
No offense, but your commentary here -- with its rigidly unidimensional perspective and nonsensical descriptors ("lib") -- is mostly value subtracted.
Nor do I expect everyone to understand what I am talking about.
Regards.
04-11-2025 12:28 PM
04-11-2025 10:24 AM
@gone.c-33 wrote:@cardxcraft wrote:meme wrote: I agree except for one detail, He is NOT a leader!
78 million Americans, 2024 POTUS popular voters, swing state voters and states with absolute voter id requirements kindly disagree with your statement. Btw, isn't it odd Trump won every state with an absolute voter id requirement. More to come, as dem popularity is tanking and 2028 will require voter id. No more dreamers and corpses on the dem voter rolls.
Trump is a survivor of assasination attempts/plots, despicable and disgusting lawfare by the left, two time POTUS, creator of the Trump brand, billionaire, has secured $7 trillion usd in new investments in just a few months and his amazing New York Times number 1 best selling book for 13 weeks straight, "The Art of the Deal". He does have that "it factor".
This has to be a parody account.
chapeau wrote:
I keep thinking this is actually someone who writes for The Onion.
Trump folded like a cheap tent on those tariffs - if he truly thought they were The Answer, he wouldn't have. Like I say - look at what he does, not what he says.
cardxcraft wrote:
More ad hominem instead of facts. 80 nations suddenly desirous to negoatiate a new trade deal. Securing $7 trillion usd in new, previously offshored and foreign investments. The goal was to barter new trade deals and gain new invesrments, which Trump accomplished. Btw, the tariffs are still in place, just lowered. Also, as of now, Trump tariff on China is at an additional 145%.
04-11-2025 12:31 PM
Oh please, don't try to act like little miss innocent, I think we've all experienced your rude attacks, and many threads have been moved or locked due to your intolerant remarks.
You preach to everyone like you know more than the professionals. There are many intelligent people here and you are very condescending like your speaking to a child.
As far as POTUS goes, he needs to first act like one to be treated like one. Nobody owes him respect it is earned!