What are the rules for returns or refunds after the default return period?

[gammaraydigital]

I ask this as a buyer, but also want to know for myself as a seller. Last October I bought a tape backup drive that was sold as new, complete with the manufacturer's warranty. We didn't need to use the drive until this week, so I opened the box for the first time yesterday (never bothered before since it was sold as new and appeared to be so from the outside), and it turns out there's evidence that it's not new - the anti-static bag and security seal on it were broken; the power switch doesn't work, but is stuck in the "on" position all the time, and there are error codes that tell you to contact technical support to fix. 

So I did, and they couldn't find the serial number, or the model number in their database. This is HP Enterprise, and for them to tell me it's not in their system makes me think this is a grey market drive from some other region of the world (which is why they don't have it in their database). They won't support it if it's not in their system. And the only reason I can think of why it wouldn't be in their system is if it's grey market.  

I emailed the seller yesterday and am waiting to hear back, but I'm wondering what the rules are in a situation like this - what would be required of the seller if it turns out the listing information is false? Do they just get sanctioned, or is there some recourse for the buyer? 

Thanks!

[bill.purvis2012]

You've waited too late to complain.  The buyer has the responsibility to verify their purchases. Ebay gives 30 days for a complaint and longer on returns. That's ample for good business. 

[soh.maryl]

A buyer has 30 days after receipt to open an item not as described case with eBay.

If the buyer paid with Paypal, he has 180 days to open a case.

Or he can do a charge back on his credit card.

Your example points up the fact that every purchase should be checked as soon as it's received.

That includes not just eBay, but Chewy, Stitch Fix etc.  

[m60driver]

Your only recourse at this point would be a credit card chargeback.  But honestly, if I were the buyer I would probably not even respond to you and if I did I would just tell you to take a hike as I would have no idea what you did to the unit after so many months.

[gammaraydigital]

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@m60driver wrote:

and if I did I would just tell you to take a hike as I would have no idea what you did to the unit after so many months.

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Wow. No wonder so many ebay sellers have a lousy rep with buyers. 

As I stated - the auction says it comes with the manufacturer's warranty. This is apparently not true and I'm finding this out within a few months of purchase of something that enterprise-grade IT equipment that comes with a 3 year warranty. Issues with the item I got aside, the odds of requiring warranty help on the purchase of something that's brand new are low, so a user isn't going to find out that they don't have a warranty until it's too late. 

[gammaraydigital]

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@soh.maryl wrote:

If the buyer paid with Paypal, he has 180 days to open a case.

Thanks. This was paypal actually, so i think I still have time. I'd like to give the seller a chance to respond though, of course. 

[gammaraydigital]

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@bill.purvis2012 wrote:

You've waited too late to complain.  The buyer has the responsibility to verify their purchases. Ebay gives 30 days for a complaint and longer on returns. That's ample for good business. 

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Yes, I took too long to test it. But let's set aside the fact that the unit arrived not as described. The bigger issue to me is that it was being sold with the manufacturer's 3y warranty. Apparently that is not the case. If the drive worked fine but died in 6 months I wouldn't find out until then. This seems like a real problem. 

[southern*sweet*tea]

If I buy your new, open box Tripp Light now and complain to you in September that it won't work, what will you do?

[gammaraydigital]

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

If I buy your new, open box Tripp Light now and complain to you in September that it won't work, what will you do?

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Who said anything about open box? This was sold as new with a manufacturer's warranty. The package arrived and it looked to be brand new. FWIW, this item was $3700, so I'm not talking about a power strip. 

I just have to say here that I've been in business for 22 years. If I took the attitude that most of the sellers here are taking, I don't think I'd still be in business. We've screwed things up before, and we've made good on it, and that has made us successful in what we do because those customers will come back knowing they're in good hands.

The right thing for the seller to do is acknowledge that the listing was incorrect (there is no warranty if the manufacturer tells me they won't give me one -- and nobody is likely to find that out until they actually need to use the warranty)

It's no wonder seller fees here are so high. I can't imagine how much of this kind of thing Ebay has to deal with on a daily basis. 

[m60driver]

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@gammaraydigital wrote:

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

If I buy your new, open box Tripp Light now and complain to you in September that it won't work, what will you do?

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Who said anything about open box? This was sold as new with a manufacturer's warranty. The package arrived and it looked to be brand new. FWIW, this item was $3700, so I'm not talking about a power strip. 

I just have to say here that I've been in business for 22 years. If I took the attitude that most of the sellers here are taking, I don't think I'd still be in business. We've screwed things up before, and we've made good on it, and that has made us successful in what we do because those customers will come back knowing they're in good hands.

It's no wonder seller fees here are so high. I can't imagine how much of this kind of thing Ebay has to deal with on a daily basis. 

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Ebay does not have to deal with this issue as you missed the deadline.  Ebay makes it abundantly clear that a buyer has a certain time window to ask for a refund.  You are asking some seller to cover for your mistake.   I was in retail for about 40 years and have been selling on Ebay for over 20, but even I would have never taken back an item purchased five months earlier.  Manufacturer's warranty, well that usually requires registration also within a reasonable time or purchase.     You dug your own grave on this purchase so stop blaming others. You are lucky you can still try a chargeback.

[gammaraydigital]

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@m60driver wrote:

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Manufacturer's warranty, well that usually requires registration also within a reasonable time or purchase.     You dug your own grave on this purchase so stop blaming others. You are lucky you can still try a chargeback.

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I haven't had to register a product in decades. If you buy something from the manufacturer, you're typically registered by default. If you buy from a third party and have a problem, to get warranty coverage you just have to prove when you bought it by showing the receipt from the retailer, so they know it's still under warranty. 

Bottom line here is that the seller appears to be selling gray market IT gear while advertising that it's "Brand new factory sealed HP," and under a 3 year warranty. (quoted from the original listing)

In my case, yes, I'll take it up as a chargeback if they won't make good. But it's also ebay's problem because they're allowing a seller to get away with essentially false advertising. And for what it's worth, I'm giving the seller the benefit of the doubt here, and an opportunity to address the situation in a way that works for both of us. But, radio silence is going to result in a chargeback and I have pretty good grounds to win it since it's clearly not what they advertised. 

[dryophelia]

A 3 year warranty means nothing on eBay at the best of times, unless purchases are made from an Authorized Dealer. 
Random sellers offering any kind of warranty outside the standard eBay 30 day MBG are a red flag, for me. 

Here  is what eBay has to say to sellers about offering a warranty on a product. It is important that buyers understand what to look for when attempting to purchase an item with warranty. 

That feeling of “$3700 is not a power strip”, is what would compel me to fully inspect the item before it sat on a shelf for half a year. 

Protect yourself. eBay has systems in place for buyers when a transaction goes sideways. This process is there specifically to ensure buyers have a positive experience on eBay. It is nearly impossible for a buyer NOT to get a refund. Basically, unless the buyer opens the wrong type of case or allows the case to close because of timing, a buyer will be fully refunded. 

Your seller knows what they did. They have been waiting for those 180 days to pass until they are completely free of a forced refund. 
With timelines so close and the money you spent for it, this seller would NOT be getting a few days to get back to me. I would open the case in PayPal and light a fire under this swindler. 
Open the case, let PayPal communicate with this seller. Obviously, he’s not taking you seriously. 

@gammaraydigital 

[gammaraydigital]

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@dryophelia wrote:

Open the case, let PayPal communicate with this seller. Obviously, he’s not taking you seriously. 

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That is the plan. But I'm giving him until the end of the day to respond, and have also attempted to contact them via email outside ebay at their store. Covering my bases so PayPal knows I tried. 

[dryophelia]

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I just have to say here that I've been in business for 22 years. If I took the attitude that most of the sellers here are taking, I don't think I'd still be in business. We've screwed things up before, and we've made good on it, and that has made us successful in what we do because those customers will come back knowing they're in good hands.

That is where you and this seller differ. You are running a business. This seller is not honest. They are out to dupe people. 

The right thing for the seller to do is acknowledge that the listing was incorrect (there is no warranty if the manufacturer tells me they won't give me one -- and nobody is likely to find that out until they actually need to use the warranty)

Until proven otherwise, treat all implied warranties with a grain of salt. Most warranties are red herrings.

It's no wonder seller fees here are so high. I can't imagine how much of this kind of thing Ebay has to deal with on a daily basis. 
There is no connection to refunds and eBay fees.
eBay does not 'deal' with any of this. The seller is the one who refunds. If the seller does not cooperate with the refund, eBay has the authority to go to the seller's account and take the money for the refund (even without the buyer returning the item, in some cases. But that is a topic for another day, another thread)