Empty return scam

[potero63]

Be me...

Receive notice of a return, okay, that's fine.

Customer mails the same day... wow! A real pro.

Return arrives, its a used medical mask, and not the $170  item I was expecting. Hmmm.

It's New Year's Eve, no eBay support staff to talk to, I have 2 days. ???

Look for some way to resolve this with eBay and "Report Bad Buyer". Watch message disappear into an apparent black hole?

Talk to eBay support on January 2nd (the day I must issue the refund). They suggest that I let the request expire, then see if the buyer opens a new request at which point eBay will step in. IDK, does it work that way? not sure, but I'll try. lol

January 3 the refund is automatically issued, and now the "case is closed" and I cannot appeal it. Okay then.

So... how, exactly, was this suppose to go???

[vintagecraze50]

Scammers tend to avoid experienced sellers who have a lot of feedback and have excellent reputation on here. Also they tend to avoid sellers who offer returns and free returns as with this case sellers are allowed to deduct 50 percent of the price if said scammer returns nothing or something else. The experienced scammers know this and avoid those sellers.

[vintagecraze50]

You should NOT start selling very expensive or scam attracting items on here with low feedback and no rep. These scammers target those sellers the most. They target them especially with a no return policy.

[potero63]

Interesting.

I do offer 30 day returns on everything, but buyer pays return shipping... are you saying that I should offer free returns as a sort of defense against the scammers?

[stephenmorgan]

Read about this similar scam that was just resolved with eBay.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Returns/Buyer-request-a-return-but-it-was-never-sent-back-and-yet-EBAY...

[potero63]

Unfortunately all my returns are coming to my address... and it appears that the reason eBay decided for the seller on the linked case is specifically because the return went to the wrong address.

[potero63]

As an aside: How do I discover what the destination address of the return is? I get a general city and zip, but when I track through eBay or on USPS it does not show the exact return address.

[stephenmorgan]

I do not think there is a way for you to get it.  This is where you take you information to the USPS and they can research it.  They may not tell you much other than the package

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@potero63 wrote:

As an aside: How do I discover what the destination address of the return is? I get a general city and zip, but when I track through eBay or on USPS it does not show the exact return address.

 Not sure what you mean?  You received something, correct, so your address is the destination address of the return.

Did you mean the address of the person who sent it?  I am not sure you could find this out.  The USPS only knows what was put on the shipping label.   They don't actually verify if that is correct.  The best you likely can find out is the where the first USPS to handle the item is located.  You would have to ask you USPS if they will research this and tell you.

Showing the item returned did not come from the same location it was sent to does help to explain some scams but that by itself does not.  A person can always say they took the item with them and decided to return it while in a different location. 

On the envelope you posted the picture of, it has two Tracking Numbers.  I don't know this to be true but it looks like the return label was provided to return the item from Albuquerque NM but then it was so far away from Albuquerque that a second Tracking Number was issued to account for where it was actually mailed from.  But this is just a guess on my part.

Does you other returns have two Tracking Number as well?  The second tracking number is within the little square code like this one.  

And it shows this. 

The Bar Code Tracking Number shows this

[stephenmorgan]

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@potero63 wrote:

Unfortunately all my returns are coming to my address... and it appears that the reason eBay decided for the seller on the linked case is specifically because the return went to the wrong address.

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But the thing is they demonstrated that it was a scam and were reimbursed as a result.

The package size and the weight variations show that you could not have receive back what was sent.  The shipping label on the envelope you pictured shows the item to be a .5 Cubic.  That pictured of the envelope is not anywhere close to being a .5 Cubic (864 Cubic Inches).  I would offer a picture of your 5 pounds of nuts beside that envelope to show they will not fit.  

Are you able to find out the weight of the shipment from USPS?

[potero63]

Actual Shipping Destination: The thread you linked mentioned that they found the destination address (my address in my case, but some other address in the linked thread's case). I was curious as to how they discovered the destination address, as I think I now have one that did not end up at my business location.

Actual Package Weight from USPS No, I need to go in and see if I can get that information.

Do your other returns have two Tracking Number as well? No, but all three (so far) were shipped from that SAME EXACT distribution center! lol. One package went to Montana, then returned through Houston. One went to Tennessee and returned through the SAME USPS dist center in Houston... and of course the ABQ one did too... not sure about the next one, it hasn't shipped yet.

[stephenmorgan]

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@potero63 wrote:

Actual Shipping Destination: The thread you linked mentioned that they found the destination address (my address in my case, but some other address in the linked thread's case). I was curious as to how they discovered the destination address, as I think I now have one that did not end up at my business location.

Actual Package Weight from USPS No, I need to go in and see if I can get that information.

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There are a lot of different scams.  What we have been talking about here sounds like the fraudulent return scam where something other than your item was returned to you.  A variation of this scam is to return something of little value to a address within your same Zip Code but not your address.  eBay sees the tracking number delivered to you Zip Code and then refunds the buyer.

If you think eBay refunded someone for something that was not returned to your address, try this.  eBay provided you with the tracking numbers of the returns correct?  You need to show that you are associated with the tracking numbers.  This could be in the messages eBay sent telling you of the return.  Take that information to the USPS and ask them to verify where the shipping label was delivered to.  If it was not your address they can tell.  They may be relucent to tell you the address the label was delivered to.  They can however, if you ask, write you a letter or statement on their Letter Head paper stating that the tracking number xxx xxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xx was not delivered to your address.  With that eBay should refund you as long as you are still within the appeal timeline.

[stephenmorgan]

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@potero63 wrote:

Do your other returns have two Tracking Number as well? No, but all three (so far) were shipped from that SAME EXACT distribution center! lol. One package went to Montana, then returned through Houston. One went to Tennessee and returned through the SAME USPS dist center in Houston... and of course the ABQ one did too... not sure about the next one, it hasn't shipped yet.

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That may just be the normal distribution route mail takes for your area.  That one you pictured does seem strange with the two tracking numbers.

I am in Alamogordo (Otero County) and my outgoing mail goes to El Paso Texas first.  I can mail my neighbor a letter and it will go to El Paso and then back to Alamogordo for delivery.  Years ago my USPS was a distribution sorting center so any mail going within the city would not leave the city.

[potero63]

Well, let's just say that eBay has actually been very helpful in this situation. The fact that all the returns came from the same shipping center in Houston was helpful, thanks again @stephenmorgan . The only money I ended up losing was for the order on which I sent a partial refund. The others worked out various ways depending on other factors between eBay and the buyers.

All I can say is that eBay staff was great, and that I just talked through each one of the issues as they came up. They wanted me to report each buyer and work with eBay and wait as they turned each return into a case and finished them out.

Remarkably, one of the "people" (I assume s stolen card) that ordered and returned nothing has ordered 2 more times on 2 other accounts. lol. I just canceled the orders with "address issues" and hope my account is not damaged.

Thanks all for the help!

[stephenmorgan]

Nice, glad it worked out for you. If the orders are being shipped to the same address that already ripped you off then I think it appropriate to cancel with the address issue and would hope eBay would not ding your account. 

[compscrap]

even if you do a partial refund the crook buyer can still open a claim and get the rest of the money.

    Always report. If you report the scam buyer eventually they will be declined by Ebay. I have gone through the same thing 4 times in the past 45 days. Used the medical mask and one, a completely empty envelope in another , a small card in the third and I just now got a extremely cheap package of fake eyelashes.  Three of these returns were supposed to be a set of $60 blower straps.   

    it's not like this hasn't happened before but lately it is happening much more often.    ebay must've recently changed some thing because there has been a huge uptick in fake returns. 

   Report every single incident eventually it helps  

[compscrap]

Report the buyer.  Report every single such incident. It won't get you your money back, but it puts these crooks on file and when Ebay sees that pattern, they will stop issuing a refund for that buyer. 

     In my 12 years ebay has sided with me a few times.  but I have not seen too many fake returns in that time until

   lately.  

      there has been a huge uptick in fake returns. I just received four different ones within the past two months.  i make Ebay refund the money. The reason I do that is because if enough people have reported that buyer for the same thing, Ebay will not do the refund.  but that doesn't take place often. 

   I take a picture of the fake item and the package came in. I then issue an email with the picture  to the buyer stating I'm not giving him any money and that I think he's a crook. Then I report the buyer.