Counterfeit Coins

[jaybo2]

This is sickening...I filed about 20 reports to Ebay about specific auctions that had counterfeit 3 cent pieces. Do you know they all came back..."Does not violate Ebay Policies" **bleep**! They are counterfeit and nothing in the auction states they are replicas. How do I know they were counterfeit...1. New People...0 History 2. From China 3. Selling 1885 3 cent nickels, with 4 in quantity, for $29. Please tell what's wrong with Ebay. I can't believe I'm going to take minutes from my life to call them today. Infuriating...Can you explain this? Someone commented to me that..."People KNOW they're fake"! Ok...Then Why Are People Buying them? They will end up in different markets. Maybe I'll find one available at a flea market in Florida.

[eburtonlab]

@jaybo2 

Counterfeit items are not allowed to be listed on eBay at all. No one is authorized to sell counterfeit coins. That fact alone does not stop some people from trying to sell them, however.

The problem is that unscrupulous or uninformed sellers can list genuine items and then deliver counterfeit items.

It is not always possible to look at a listing and know in advance exactly what, if anything, the seller intends to deliver. For one thing, a scammer can simply copy a listing from a genuine seller, using a genuine photo of a genuine item.

Except for a few specific categories of items that go through authentication, eBay never sees what the seller ships or the what the buyer receives, so there is nothing for eBay to check unless someone complains about what was received by invoking eBay's money back guarantee.

Sellers are responsible for the descriptions they provide, and buyers should not assume that eBay screens the listings in advance.

As long as counterfeits exist and there are folks trying to sell them, buyers will still have to be on the lookout for them, and avoid deals that are obviously too-good-to-be-true, whether they are being sold by accounts registered overseas or by domestic sellers wittingly or unwittingly buying counterfeits from overseas to sell here.

Buyers that doubt their ability to distinguish a genuine article from a counterfeit one should only consider purchasing from trustworthy sellers that have an established reputation for delivering exactly what was described, and should avoid deals that are too-good-to-be-true, or deals that are offered by inexperienced sellers that might disappear soon after the transaction is made, or else be prepared to get items authenticated by trusted sources within thirty days to be able to take advantage of eBay's money back guarantee.

[jaybo2]

The counterfeit coins listed are not copied from other genuine auctions. They are pictures of a coin that they claim to have 4 in quantity to sell. The coin pictured is uncirculated and they have 4 to sell for about $29 when they are worth about $3,000 each at minimum. And they have many other auctions for different coins with the same scam of selling counterfeits. I sent about 20 reports for each of them and they all came back "No Violation".
You miss the point about who buys the coins. Of course, most of us know they are fakes. But will stop stop the crooks who will buy these coins and sell them somewhere else...Like a flea market or on another platform? This incentivizes and breathes life into expanding thievery.  Eburton, isn't the answer for Ebay to stop them?

[eburtonlab]

What rule, exactly, do you think that eBay could implement that would prevent a determined scammer from listing one thing and then delivering something else?

There is no rule that would allow honest folks to do business with each other online while at the same time guaranteeing that no one can lie about what they are selling, short of requiring costly third-party authentication for every item and transaction.

You do not seem to understand the difference between a listing violation and a fraudulent transaction. They are distinct. It is possible to defraud someone without there being a listing violation that can be observed before the item actually changes hands.

The coin pictured is uncirculated and they have 4 to sell for about $29 when they are worth about $3,000 each at minimum.

It is not against any rule that I know of to list such coins. If the seller were able to actually deliver what was advertised, you agree that that would be OK, correct?

Just because you and I both doubt the seller's ability or willingness to do that does not mean that the listing necessarily violates policy before any fraudulent transaction has occurred.

[ittybitnot]

for each of them and they all came back "No Violation".

@jaybo2 

The "report" feature is now turned over to an AI bot.  Unfortunately, the AI BOT is stupid, so any report will get the same 'no violation' response.  It has been said that if an inordinate amount of "reports" have been received, that eBay may actually do something. There has been no evidence shown that is actually what happens. 

[simba6]

Coin collectors have to do their homework.  Some good coin guides can go a long way in getting new collectors up to speed.  Not saying it's right, just the way the hobby is.   Like the way wheat pennies jump to the ends of rolls.

[jaybo2]

Are You For Real Or Is Your Response A Troll? Some Fraud Cannot Be Stopped. My example is completely different and you are very confused about the difference. You CAN SHARPLY REDUCE the amount of fraud by recognizing obviously fraudulent auctions. The auctions that I pointed out are easily, so easily, identifiable as fraudulent. Also, you are totally confused when you conflate a difference between policy and fraud. In my case there is no difference that you falsely created. Ebay policy does not permit fraudulent counterfeits to be sold so there is NO DIFFERENCE.

Furthermore, what are your motives that you advocate for fraud? Are you buying these counterfeits so you can sell them in flea markets or on other sources. Why in the world would anyone not want to stop fraudulent transactions when they can easily be detected?

[jaybo2]

You're RIGHT! And that means they need to fix the parameters of their Ai. I called someone at Ebay who claimed this is a problem and she (Tiffany) was going to get these counterfeits off the market.

[jaybo2]

Simba, the issue is not about coin collectors doing their homework! Most of them are not fooled by these obviously counterfeit coins. The point that you need to understand is that these listings spread fraud like a disease. The thieves buy them to sell and defraud others "we" need to stop that spread.
Furthermore, since the listings are so obviously counterfeit, they should be removed immediately as people complain to the Ai Bots. Pennies at the end of the rolls are deceptive but that is NOT fraud. Selling Counterfeits IS FRAUD! 

If everyone filed reports (You just have to click one button) it would help with this problem. You have the wrong attitude when you reaction is...it is what it is...

[gosimus]

@jaybo2 

< what are your motives that you advocate for fraud >    

Consider the possibility that your allegations about fraud may have been going unheeded if you've used the same type of fantastical language that you used when you made the unfounded and insolent allegation that @eburtonlab advocates for fraud.  When I came to that statement, I lost interest in trying to help you.  

[jaybo2]

It's not about helping me. I recognize it. I know what fraud looks like. It's about the community. So you don't like my attitude and you don't want to stop fraud? Well that's perplexing.
I'm 77 and I don't have patience. Responses should be aimed at preventing fraud not making excuses for fraud.

[gosimus]

---

@jaybo2 wrote:    

So you don't like my attitude ... I'm 77 and I don't have patience.    

---

I don't care about your attitude, just your action.  What I deemed inappropriate was the accusation about one of the most excellent responders in the community.  I'm pretty sure I was clear about that. 

An interesting phenomenon I've wondered about, is why is it that it's only older people who have an impulse to say how old they are?  I never see a post containing something like "I'm 24 years old and..." 

[pikabo-icu]

Wow.. The attitude toward my esteemed forum friends is really rude & unfair not to mention the false accusations you're throwing around..

I'm going to try to reach you from another angle..

Nobody and I mean NOBODY is advocating for fraud or counterfeits or any other type of scamming by sellers. When this happens it gives eBay a bad reputation and that hurts ALL sellers.

The point is: eBay has MILIIONS of coins listed and MILLIONS of watches & shoes & jewelry & handbags and and and... There is no way for any site to police all those listings thus the money back guarantee that  gives time for a buyer to inspect their purchase or have something authenticated and RETURN for a full refund.

Now, eBay has no way to verify authenticity by your reports. You might be the world's best coin expert OR you could be a competitor, an angry former buyer, unfamiliar with that specific coin or just a plain troll reporting for sport. If a listing is reported by multiple people (and nobody knows that actual number) it triggers removal, perhaps by getting actual human eyes on it.

But that's the best you're going to get. A buyer, inspecting an item, has a lot better chance at determining authenticity than do people looking at a few photos. PLUS; eBay allows sellers to use photos from their database so the photo may not even be the actual item sent. 

Fraud, counterfeits, the ole' switcheroo have always been a problem buying online not just eBay. That's why eBay gives the MBG. If you vet your sellers and utilize the MBG, you will never get stuck with a counterfeit coin/other item. 

I understand your anger and desire to protect coin collecting, I buy & collect coins myself. I have never purchased a fake nor failed to receive exactly what I ordered. I've seen some fakes, gold especially but I vet my sellers. 

The best YOU personally can do is report fakes, if you suspect them and allow the process of the MBG to do it's thing. Perhaps take some time and make some posts educating new collectors & buyers on the board that discusses coins https://community.ebay.com/t5/Collectibles-Art/bd-p/29 

I understand your passion but your anger is misplaced being aimed at the members here. Point that passion toward educating people..

Have a grand day. 

[12345jamesstamps]

It is very hard to monitor eBay with fake merchandise.

Taking the time to report items never purchased... to me seems like a waste of time.

Believe it or it...some people buy fake items just for the fun of it.

A case in point...old fake postage stamps.

There are a lot of fake stamps made in the 1800's by people out there.

And believe it or not...people know they are fake and yet they collect them and these fake stamps sell at some very high prices.

The history of who made certain fake stamps...the people themselves...are somewhat famous for doing it and are in chapters in many stamp books.

It shouldn't bother you unless you yourself made a purchase...but you didn't...correct?

So don't let it bother you.

Perhaps put that energy into something else instead of looking for sellers who sell fake coins.

[femmefan1946]

What country produces 3c coins?

In stamp collecting, stamps from countries that don't exist or which only pretend to be from countries that do exist are called "cinderellas".

And as @12345jamesstamps  says there is a philatelic subspecialty called "Fakes Forgeries and Cinderellas" which is quite popular.

These were produced by the British Government during WWII as part of a propaganda campaign.

BTW. EBay does not pay much attention to multiple reports from a single member, who might be a vigilante or a competitor. They do pay attention when the same listing is reported by multiple members.