Managed payments is confusing

[store-of-sweden]

Im confused. I was just moved over to managed payments. I am located in Sweden. I thought I should save a few cents with managed payments but it’s the other way around. The list of fees goes on and on.

1. Final value fee

2. International fee

3. Final value fee per order fixed

4. Conversion rate fee

For me the fees as almost doubled.

19.39% plus vat Is my new total fees. Makes it more or less impossible to sell here anymore. Can raise the prices with 19 percent but that would make the items way to expensive. 

[ulfesharpe]

You can add to those troubles the fact that the EU is dropping the €22 customs limit  and everything declared as e-commerce will pay VAT (and stop at customs = increased delivery times). Starting July 1.

[go-bad-chicken]

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@mam98031 wrote:

1.  Ebay has ALWAYS charged a FVF.

2.  MP charges a 1.65% International Fee, PayPal charged 1.50%, this is not a new fee.

3.  I think you are referring to the 30 cent per transaction fee.  Yes MP has this charge as does PayPal.  This is NOT a new fee.

4.  Conversion rates are ONLY paid when or if you were to post your listings directly on, for example, the US site.  Since ALL listings posted to the US site have to be paid for in US funds, you would need to pay a conversion fee to have that converted to the type of currency for your country.  If you are just listing on the site of your country, then there will be no conversion fee.

The fees in MP have NOT increased overall fees. The following numbers represent those that do not have a store and the fee rate for most common categories [not all].

Fees BEFORE going into MP
10.20% FVF + 2.9% PP fees = 13.10% plus 30 cent per transaction fee.

In MP the fees are:
10.20% FVF + 2.35% money processing fee paid to MP = 12.55% plus a 30 cent per transaction fee.

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@mam98031 

"4.  Conversion rates are ONLY paid when or if you were to post your listings directly on, for example, the US site.  Since ALL listings posted to the US site have to be paid for in US funds, you would need to pay a conversion fee to have that converted to the type of currency for your country.  If you are just listing on the site of your country, then there will be no conversion fee.

The fees in MP have NOT increased overall fees. The following numbers represent those that do not have a store and the fee rate for most common categories [not all]."

See this is where MP has dropped the ball and it is most definitely more expensive for non domestic international sellers to sell on eBay.com. With PayPal those sellers were able to accept payments in USD and hold those USD in their PayPal accounts because they chose to so that they could make purchases from US sellers at a later date. 

Now with eBay's Managed Payments those international sellers who list on eBay.com are automatically forced to have any given sale made in USD automatically converted back into their native currency at a rate of 3%. And then when they want to make a purchase after the fact from a US seller they then have to pay an additional currency conversion fee to convert the money they received back I to USD. The swing amounts to an additional extra cost of anywhere from 6% to 7.5% in unnecessary cost compared to the old structure when PayPal was handling the payment processing. 

Now I realize that there is no going g back to having PayPal managing seller's payments. But eBay's Managed Payments has definitely interjected friction for international sellers and HAS INCREASED THE COSTS OF SELLING SUBSTANTIALLY FOR INTERNATIONAL SELLERS. 

The only way that I can see for these sellers to avoid these unnecessary currency conversion fees is to open bank accounts in the countries that the sell in. I believe that eBay has started allowing Canadian sellers to do exactly that and hopefully they will expand this ability to other countries in the near future.

[mam98031]

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@go-bad-chicken wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

1.  Ebay has ALWAYS charged a FVF.

2.  MP charges a 1.65% International Fee, PayPal charged 1.50%, this is not a new fee.

3.  I think you are referring to the 30 cent per transaction fee.  Yes MP has this charge as does PayPal.  This is NOT a new fee.

4.  Conversion rates are ONLY paid when or if you were to post your listings directly on, for example, the US site.  Since ALL listings posted to the US site have to be paid for in US funds, you would need to pay a conversion fee to have that converted to the type of currency for your country.  If you are just listing on the site of your country, then there will be no conversion fee.

The fees in MP have NOT increased overall fees. The following numbers represent those that do not have a store and the fee rate for most common categories [not all].

Fees BEFORE going into MP
10.20% FVF + 2.9% PP fees = 13.10% plus 30 cent per transaction fee.

In MP the fees are:
10.20% FVF + 2.35% money processing fee paid to MP = 12.55% plus a 30 cent per transaction fee.

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@mam98031 

"4.  Conversion rates are ONLY paid when or if you were to post your listings directly on, for example, the US site.  Since ALL listings posted to the US site have to be paid for in US funds, you would need to pay a conversion fee to have that converted to the type of currency for your country.  If you are just listing on the site of your country, then there will be no conversion fee.

The fees in MP have NOT increased overall fees. The following numbers represent those that do not have a store and the fee rate for most common categories [not all]."

See this is where MP has dropped the ball and it is most definitely more expensive for non domestic international sellers to sell on eBay.com. With PayPal those sellers were able to accept payments in USD and hold those USD in their PayPal accounts because they chose to so that they could make purchases from US sellers at a later date. 

Now with eBay's Managed Payments those international sellers who list on eBay.com are automatically forced to have any given sale made in USD automatically converted back into their native currency at a rate of 3%. And then when they want to make a purchase after the fact from a US seller they then have to pay an additional currency conversion fee to convert the money they received back I to USD. The swing amounts to an additional extra cost of anywhere from 6% to 7.5% in unnecessary cost compared to the old structure when PayPal was handling the payment processing. 

Now I realize that there is no going g back to having PayPal managing seller's payments. But eBay's Managed Payments has definitely interjected friction for international sellers and HAS INCREASED THE COSTS OF SELLING SUBSTANTIALLY FOR INTERNATIONAL SELLERS. 

The only way that I can see for these sellers to avoid these unnecessary currency conversion fees is to open bank accounts in the countries that the sell in. I believe that eBay has started allowing Canadian sellers to do exactly that and hopefully they will expand this ability to other countries in the near future.

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Yes I understand that non US sellers posting on the US site this will be more expensive for them to do business here.  

[store-of-sweden]

Bizzy thread.

Here is an example of the fees for an item sold on .com and Shipped from Sweden to Australia.

I had the  Basic store before shutting it down yesterday.

1. Item sold for 54.99

2. Final value fee 6.90 (12.55%)

3. Final value fee fixed 0.30

4. International fee 3% (buyer located in Australia)

5. Vat on a above 2.43

So the fees with MP is more or less 16%

On top of that comes the conversion fee and the loss on the low conversion rate. PayPal has the same **bleep**ty conversion rate but I do not pay any conversion fee.

Sold another item for 88 usd on another site. Total fees inc PayPals fees is 7.09 USD. Huge difference.

For me personally managed payments is insanely bad. I rather sell my items cheaper elswhere than over-priced here on eBay. The buyers are the ones suffering in the end. 

[deltilogical]

"the cheerleaders with their rubberstamping of praise "

I noticed that too.  Thank you for saying it out loud.  There is no benefit to us in slowing everything down.

The cheerleaders LIKE getting paid more slowly!  I sold some items yesterday, Thursday, but I won't get paid  until next Wednesday at earliest, even with daily payout.   I ship once I get paid.   Of course, I could just GIVE IN and ship based on their debt.

[glasser]

@go-bad-chicken Maybe because mine I have been mostly from Japan and the rate is different.  Over the years have developed some private clients overseas.  We eventually realized that there was no longer a need for the buyer protections in PP since there are high levels of trust. Now we wire money--several services out there--and there is usually a one time fixed fee of like $15.  This usually around 1% of the purchase based on what I am selling. I have been able to lower prices and make the same amount of  money. Everyone is happy.

[glasser]

@mam98031 I understand, eBay calls the purchase price the final sale price of the item, plus shipping, plus taxes.

My point was that when you sell something, what you get is the price it's sold for. The fees are tacked on above your revenue point. So, if you use a shipping calculator and the buyer is in CA and you are in NY you will be paying higher fees then if the buyer was in NJ.  Additionally, if you don't know the tax rate of the buyer until the sale is complete you also don't know the fees you will be paying.

Sure you can account for that in the price you charge by raising prices. OTOH, if you sell by auctions like I do, you can't account for that as much.

Plus when eBay said they were lowering fees they weren't because they added taxes to the overall final value. Meaning, higher fees.

You are probably right. Charging for a label would cause an uproar.  But if you are paying 12.% on shipping and shipping cost is $10 you are already .12 for a label anyway. So it's more of a hidden tax.

[glasser]

My math is bad. You are paying 1.20 on shipping at 12%

[mam98031]

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@deltilogical wrote:

"the cheerleaders with their rubberstamping of praise "

I noticed that too.  Thank you for saying it out loud.  There is no benefit to us in slowing everything down.

The cheerleaders LIKE getting paid more slowly!  I sold some items yesterday, Thursday, but I won't get paid  until next Wednesday at earliest, even with daily payout.   I ship once I get paid.   Of course, I could just GIVE IN and ship based on their debt.

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Sad that some can not accept that someone can describe the facts of the MP program without being accused of "rubberstamping" or "praising" those facts.  Being able to describe the facts does not mean the poster agrees with them or supports them in any way.  It simply means they can explain the facts.  Sad some can't see the difference.

[mam98031]

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@glasser wrote:

@mam98031 I understand, eBay calls the purchase price the final sale price of the item, plus shipping, plus taxes.

My point was that when you sell something, what you get is the price it's sold for. The fees are tacked on above your revenue point. So, if you use a shipping calculator and the buyer is in CA and you are in NY you will be paying higher fees then if the buyer was in NJ.  Additionally, if you don't know the tax rate of the buyer until the sale is complete you also don't know the fees you will be paying.

Sure you can account for that in the price you charge by raising prices. OTOH, if you sell by auctions like I do, you can't account for that as much.

Plus when eBay said they were lowering fees they weren't because they added taxes to the overall final value. Meaning, higher fees.

You are probably right. Charging for a label would cause an uproar.  But if you are paying 12.% on shipping and shipping cost is $10 you are already .12 for a label anyway. So it's more of a hidden tax.

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I understand, I always have.  That can be a concern.  No so much on lower $$ items but higher $$ value items as it will have a bigger impact then.  But then we also can't account for when the fees are less on some transactions.  I've been saying for most sellers, in a months time, it is likely that overall this is a neutral change in respect to fees.  Some transactions cost more and some less.  Which is why only looking at a single transaction can't possibly give any seller an accurate result in how MP will affect them overall unless they only have a singe sale on an average month.

Everyone simply needs to let go of of what Ebay said a couple years ago about sellers saving money in MP.  The emails over the past year or more have said that most sellers will save in MP.  That is likely true, however it is IMHO a fraction of a percent that will be saved overall.  In my personal comparison I save approximately 0.50% in fees in a months time.

Except for international sellers that sell on other sites other than for their home country.  As has been discussed and described on this thread there are some serious issues for them in regards to fees and the way MP functions.

For some sellers that have a few refunds to do in a months time, there is also the savings of fees on this as MP does refund those fees to the seller.  PayPal did not.

Also for TRS that participate in TRSP, their discount is slightly higher.

So for some sellers those facts may play a part in saving them money on fees too.  Certainly not for all sellers, but for some.

[mam98031]

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@glasser wrote:

My math is bad. You are paying 1.20 on shipping at 12%

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Still something ALL sellers should be very use to since it is something we have paid for well over 10 years and it is not new to MP.

[dugoldstuff]

You can add to those troubles the fact that the EU is dropping the €22 customs limit and everything declared as e-commerce will pay VAT (and stop at customs = increased delivery times). Starting July 1.

Also the G7 elites are over there guzzling wine and preparing to introduce a global 15% corporate tax on multinational companies. You can bet eBay will pass that along to sellers, and charge an FVF on it!

Truly, the elites of the world want an end to commerce, for some reason.

[dugoldstuff]

Yes I understand that non US sellers posting on the US site this will be more expensive for them to do business here.

So it WAS fraudulent to say that for "most" sellers, fees would go down with MP?

[dugoldstuff]

So the fees with MP is more or less 16%

In the come-on to be lured into MP, eBay sent to everyone in writing, that fees for "most" sellers would go down.

They should have told the truth in their advertising.

[dugoldstuff]

Everyone simply needs to let go of of what Ebay said a couple years ago about sellers saving money in MP.

Oh, so they did say sellers would save money, they don't since we must let it go, but that's not fraudulent? OK!