Selling VIN and Cowl Tags Should be Illegal

[tony1963]

I find it interesting that you can buy VIN and cowl tags on eBay for certain "preferred" vehicles.  I cannot come up with a reason to buy those other than to fake a vehicle.

Should selling these items be illegal?

[roblinsgarage]

Also the selling of ownerships.  I see that here locally sometimes for vintage cars; not necessarily muscle cars; usually 50s cars.

[tony1963]

Well, be thankful it wasn't some lame 40s era Ford someone was trying to charlie unload.

[jr-41ford]

Doesn't matter what one's opinion is... it's legit to sell them.

[6al_4v]

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@tony1963 wrote:

Well, be thankful it wasn't some lame 40s era Ford someone was trying to charlie unload.

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Hi Toby

I happen to be a fan of '40's automobiles and find your insults to be rather lame.

[kh-vince]

Hi everyone,

This discussion has gotten a bit heated. Please remember that, while it is fine to disagree with others, discussion should always remain friendly and respectful as required by the Community Guidelines.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[tony1963]

Everyone has the right to participate constructively in the discussion.  However, some appear to look for controversy.

Myself, I prefer Mercedes and other premium vehicles.  However, some like old Chryslers and yes, old 40s era Fords.  To each their own.

Some even like old AMC vehicles.

[stainlessenginecovers]

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@jr-41ford wrote:

Doesn't matter what one's opinion is... it's legit to sell them.

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I don't believe that is accurate (from the US Dept.ofJustice)

1364. ALTERING OR REMOVING MOTOR VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS

Section 511(a) of Title 18 makes it a felony knowingly to remove, obliterate, tamper with, or alter an identification number for a road motor vehicle or a road motor vehicle part. Section 511(b) of Title 18 creates exceptions for certain persons who engage in lawful conduct that may result in removal or alteration of an identification number. The legislative history is abundantly clear that subsection (b) is not intended to create a loophole for the operators of "chop shops." See H.R.Rep. No. 1087 on H.R. 6257, 98th Congress, 2d Sess. 23-25 (1984).

[tony1963]

Thanks for sharing.  I've shared that same piece of legislation over the years and it falls on deaf ears.  Around here, there used to be a mention of "The University of Waxed Bar Stool" where several board contributors earned their degrees.

Even if a case was heard by The Supreme Court, and a decision made, you wouldn't get anyone here to listen.

[jr-41ford]

I didn't mention anything about swapping the VIN tags to put on another vehicle... just that it's legal to sell. Some people get too wound up... 

[tony1963]

I wonder what "lawful conduct" someone is involved in when they remove the VIN and cowl tags from one vehicle and sell them on eBay?

[tony1963]

To demonstrate to everyone just how risky and absurd this behavior has become, on another board an individual comes forward with a 1962 Chevrolet Impala bubbletop which is in decent shape, but disassembled.  From what he can tell, it is an original bubbletop.

The problem comes when he goes to inspect the VIN and cowl tags.  The individual who oversees the jewels in that place indicates that they have been removed for safe keeping and shows him the tags.  Both the VIN and cowl tag mention model 1847 which is an Impala.  The problem is that Chevrolet never built an Impala bubble top, only a Bel Air bubble top.  So, a 1637 body code would be correct, but no valid VIN or cowl tag exists.

What they have is a piece of junk.  If anyone ever buys it, they are likely to be surprised when their state refuses to issue a title and tells them that their beloved VIN is associated with a vehicle scrapped in 1982 and now subject to inspection as a rebuilt title.  

[tony1963]

It appears that eBay has opened up a way to report these as a listing violation and thus, have them removed from the site.  

[jr-41ford]

In this thread, it appears only eBay prohibits sales of VIN tags. There are numerous people, as collectors, buy and sell VIN tags to place on their shop walls. It's only when VIN tags are used for illicit purposes the action becomes illegal and I know several individuals that have done this for years.

Some people collect Hot Wheel cars, others collect VIN tags. 

[tony1963]

eBay probably does not want to be seen as facilitation of a crime by making it easy to sell VIN and cowl tag combinations.  

Why would someone pay $1,500 for a VIN and cowl tag for a 1967 Camaro?