Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

[aussie-pete]

Hi,

So I bought a car out-of-state on ebay a few weeks ago. (Not the first time I've done it.) Everything seemed OK with the description. Seller  seemed legit with over 100 feedback at 100%. I win the bid and make contact to make payment. I set up shipping. Everything seems to be going OK to this point.

The car gets here on 12/19. No problem with the transporter and the car looks OK. However, the title I asked him to mail hasn't arrived. The second key described in the auction is missing, too. After a few phone calls, voicemails and texts, I eventually get a picture of the mailing receipt, sent on 12/21. It doesn't arrive until a week after the car does, and still no second key. I continue to call, but the seller never answers. His voicemail is always full. And he takes forever to respond to texts. When he does reply, it's essentially "I'll get it to you soon." Soon never comes.

I take a closer look at the title. The seller never transferred the title to himself after he bought the car from someone else two months earlier. This isn't always a problem, but it can be a real pain in the rear if you can't get in touch with the previous owner and if your state charges more for delayed title transfer (Texas does). This detail was never disclosed. When I finally get a response from the seller about that and the key, he doesn't answer my questions and instead asks me if I want to reverse the sale. At who's shipping expense I ask, and never get an answer to that, either.

I continue trying to get the seller to do what's right (either transfer the title to himself, get in touch with who sold him the car to work with me or reimburse me for the added costs, AND send me the second key). For a brief moment I think I have him onboard, and then he flakes out again. The person the seller bought the car from doesn't respond. At this point, I have a problematic title and no second key. Resolving these problems could cost almost $450. (The car also had some undisclosed suspension problems, but at this point, whatever!)

This is not what I was expecting, so I finally contact ebay. I relate my problems and they essentially blow me off! Inbetween quoting policy and how they want to help, they say unhelpful things like "Well, you have a title...work with the seller," and "The car's over 10 years old, what do want us to do about it?" Frankly, this isn't the response I expected. After 18 years on ebay as a buyer and seller, including cars, I've pretty much seen it all. ebay's held my feet to the fire, and the other party, too. But in this case, it appears if it isn't outright fraud, ebay doesn't touch disputes involving real property. Car sellers can pretty much put anything they want in a listing as long as they have plausible deniability.

SO, Let it be known, you can stretch the truth and fail to deliver, because ebay will just look the other way! So much for the world's most trusted marketplace.

Thanks for reading my first-ever post here. I don't expect it'll be allowed to stay up long.

[rfosler0726]

Well, when the seller lies about everything, how would we know? We bought a 1970 Charger RT a few years back on eBay and it was incredible! The difference is a lying seller versus an honest seller. If you listen to the recording I attached, it wasn’t just the seller lying through his teeth, eBay was just as guilty!

[rfosler0726]

It is perfectly legal to record as long as one person on the line is aware it is being recorded, so please do not give me legal advice. Also, according to my mother in law, who is a circuit judge in Chicago, the fact that I was verbally told I was covered, makes all the difference in the world. I would never have purchased it otherwise!

[atikovi]

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@rfosler0726 wrote:

It is perfectly legal to record as long as one person on the line is aware it is being recorded, so please do not give me legal advice. 

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Depends on the state. Some require BOTH parties to consent like California does. https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf If you didn't ask or tell the Ebay rep that you were recording the call, it would at the very least be inadmissible, and worse case get you in legal trouble.

[rfosler0726]

I did tell them I planned to record ahead of time but regardless, I looked into first.

[atikovi]

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@rfosler0726 wrote:

I did tell them I planned to record ahead of time but regardless, I looked into first.

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Telling Ebay you planned to record it but not telling the rep you are recording won't fly. 

[rfosler0726]

I spoke to several reps and disclosed it to them.

[rfosler0726]

I just called eBay motors again and you can stop worrying about me. They are located in South East Asia... not CA as you assumed.

[rfosler0726]

I also just learned that because ebay clearly states that the call may be recorded, that any rep speaking has that understanding prior to speaking with any client! Therefore it is legal in any state!

[ujokinme]

I'm confused. What part of the description of the vehicle in the eBay listing is not what you received?

 Is it a 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner with a 440 engine and a four speed manual transmission? Is the exterior yellow and the interior black ?  If it is then you received the vehicle as described in the listing.

It states in the listing that "this is a project car". The listing makes no reference one way or the other concerning rust.

You purchased a 50 yr old PA rust belt car and expected no rust?

You should have inspected it or paid someone to inspect it.

In the warranty section they covered their butts. In the first part of that long sentence: all vehicles are sold as is with all faults and without warranty expressed or implied oral or written assurance or guarantees the automobile is non certified which is often in preowned condition that is being auctioned without refund or exchange options any and all representations made in this description above are made to the best of the sellers knowledge however do too differences notices of condition and quality you are encouraged rely on only on your own physical inspection of the automobile and not the description.

As it has already been said your only out is if you do not receive the title.

Let us know how this turns out or at least post photos when you are done restoring it. They are nice cars.  Thanks

[atikovi]

Paging mopared.

[rfosler0726]

Here is a better puncture of the changes to the car that were not mentioned.

[rfosler0726]

Dishonest sellers know that all eBay cares about is how much they profit and not the customers, so the two of them both continue to prosper.

[rfosler0726]

Advertised car 

[marinermikes]

They added a Superbird style Plymouth to it. They put the aluminum rims on it. They wanted 1400 for the ones that were on it. Obviously you didn't want the Mick Thomsons. I wouldn't have either. First bump you would have hit they would have rubbed.

I wouldn't have bought it just because of the steering wheel.  

Seventy two pictures of the car. Very few of the undrcarraige. Out of the seventy two pictures, very few showed what realy needed looked at.

No way I buy that car with out looking at it or at least having the owner put it on he rack and taking proper pictures underneath. They are a restore shop and don't have a lift?

You may also check the vin number and see if it's a real Road Runner and not a Sport Satelite.

As far as getting your money back the title is your best chance.

[ujokinme]

Whats the big deal? Peel off the stickers if you don't like them. If I recall the black wheels were not included in the original price. The aluminum wheels and tires that are on the car now were included (photos of those are in the listing) unless you wanted to pay extra for the black wheels and tires.

FWIW the Plymouth quarter panel stickers are $40 per side with free ship at YearOne so it's no great loss money wise if you peel them off.

They are actually Superbird stickers as Mike said so no they are not correct for your car.