Authenticator not giving any information when rejecting

[galsmart]

Hi All!

I've had three handbags in a row declined, and I'm getting no notes whatsoever when declined. Losing ad and shipping fees on each one... erk...

Is anyone getting inspectors notes any more, so as to improve the ad for next time? If so can you tell me where you're seeing the inspector's notes? Thanks!

[albertabrightalberta]

@galsmart 

Didn't you already post another thread on this same subject? I remember responding and recall that others posted advice too. 

What happened to the thread? 

[galsmart]

Hi! Yes I did not see those responses, so made a new post. I thought maybe they were too old. I will look again. 

[galsmart]

Hi there, and thanks. I see your response now but cannot answer there so I will post it here:

"This is speculation because we have no idea of which bag and if it's one of the items in your completed listings.

Based on your post, I'm assuming you sold a bag 3 times or sold 3 different bags, all of which were brands and at price points that required authentication prior to being forwarded to buyers.  3 different bags actually. the first one, yes I got fooled and I do think it is a fake. A Gucci GG marmont mini. The 2nd bag was a Fendi Mon Tresor Bucket bag, which I am very sure is genuine. I had the condition as NWT, because it had one tag on it. The Third is the pink Gucci you see. I sent is as NWOT condition, I guess I will have to sell all as pre-owned in the future.

Is this correct?

And are you saying that the bags were rejected by the authenticators? Yes all 3 rejected.

If so, I assume they were returned to you and there should be an explanation in your ebay messages as well  as a copy that would go to your email. The only explanation at all is "Could Not Authenticate." I called in all 3 times and was only able to get a  hint-y explanation on the Fendi, saying it was not rejected due to fake, and a flat refusal to help on the other 2 (I had a supervisor on the Fendi that had partial Hint-y explanation).

I only see one Gucci Marmont bag (pink) in your completed listings but it's not showing as having been sold. It shows as out of stock. 

If the bag was deemed as fake, not only would it have been rejected by the authenticators but they would have removed the listing and you'd have a counterfeit ding on your account. Since I can see the Gucci listing, it wasn't removed as counterfeit. I guess the first Gucci was deemed fake since it has been removed and I got a 3 day suspension. The Fendi was removed but the supervisor told me it had not been deemed fake, but rejected for other reasons.

From what I've read in posts here, when authentic items are rejected, it's usually because they've deemed that the listing (pictures and description) don't accurately portray the condition.  Could be, I had lots of pics for all 3, you can still see them on the pink one. I think maybe like I say I will have to sell as pre-owned...

Please look through your messages and see if they tell you the reason for their decision. " They definitely do not say anything other than "Could not Authenticate." One I got back had a printout in it, and I was excited for a sec, but all it said was "Could not Authenticate" again.

So in a nutshell I am back to my original question, why am I getting no reasons for rejection, so that I can re-list more accurately? For now I must sell everything below 500, which often means no profit or a loss.

Thanks so very much!

[galsmart]

"

Authenticator notes

• Unable to confirm authenticity"

[albertabrightalberta]

---

@galsmart wrote:

"

Authenticator notes

• Unable to confirm authenticity"

---

"Unable to confirm authenticity" means that they aren't saying it's fake but can't say with 100% certainty that it's authentic. 

[galsmart]

Hey thanks.. that's what I was told. But still that's all they say to me. I really need more than that before I try to sell again.

[nwlondonhammer]

This is proving to be a huge issue but eBay will not recognise it. 

I resell handbags and know the provenance of all of them - from either the original manufacturer or retail outlet such as Harrods or Selfridges in the UK. 

Then came the accusations of inauthentic goods.  Several handbags sent back that had impeccable provenance.  Chanel.  Gucci.  All mistakenly rejected. 

eBay customer services were not well briefed on how to handle these errors.  The authenticators are assumed to be infallible.  “I’m not 100% sure what to do – there is no way to appeal the decision”, one agent told me.  With no way to appeal there must be no way for eBay to know what is going wrong!

Were my buyers being told I sell fakes?  Apparently eBay tries to call each buyer twice but it was clear that my buyers had not been spoken with. And I had had no contact whatsoever! My reputation with these high spenders was tarnished.  Indeed one Gucci bag was accepted but the dustbag sent back to me as "not able to be confirmed genuine". Yet both were purchased together and the sales receipt was not allowed as proof - as eBay do not accept such validity.

So who authenticates the authenticator?

eBay also say that their service is unaffiliated to any brand and confirmed to me that their authenticators have had only TWO WEEKS training before being judge and jury! 

The first returns we saw were a complete surprise given that we weren’t selling fakes.  The return notification email has no detail and you have to dig into the returns section of the website to find the few words that might help you understand what is wrong.  It seemed the authenticator had an issue with our description and in particular the condition statement.  I pay good attention to eBay’s announcements but this is when I first learnt that the authenticators of the Authenticity Programme are concerned with more than just authenticity – they claim to be expert in all the subjective areas of the description.  Authenticity does more than it says on the tin.  This is why eBay need to either restrict to Genuine v Fake OR introduce a 30 point listing form so that the seller and eBay cover the same points on as listing. Which is ridiculous as what then is the point of SNAD!!

Indeed the standard of checks varies wildly. One bag had x.10 resolution photos of scratches on a new and  unused bag barely visible to the naked eye, whilst another patent leather bag was sent to me as being "in pristine condition" - yet on receipt was "sticky" as the patent leather had degraded over time. That was an SNAD but should have been picked up!

eBay will not change so be aware.

[galsmart]

Hi there and thanks. We certainly feel each other's pain. My main question is still I have gotten zero, and I mean zero words of help..

"you have to dig into the returns section of the website to find the few words that might help" - there's nothing for me at all, I've even called in on all three rejections and gotten a few hints from one supervisor and flat rejections from the drone help.

All I can gather, as if they remove the item they think it was fake, and if they leave it, there was more an issue with the condition. And this is me just guessing and having a little help from people here on the forum.

Thanks again!

- John

[albertabrightalberta]

---

@galsmart wrote:

All I can gather, as if they remove the item they think it was fake, and if they leave it, there was more an issue with the condition. And this is me just guessing and having a little help from people here on the forum.

---

This is my belief too.

[nwlondonhammer]

There's a few of us out there, having a hard time with this.

In my opinion, because the authenticators are so poorly trained and inexperienced, they are instructed to err on the side of caution at all times. And yes indeed,  they're spending too much effort on picking apart the listing description, which is covered already by SNAD.  In my opinion, eBay now need to create a 30 point listing process so we can match what their checklist is against each and every  bag -- which is ridiculous! We only have three options at the moment, new with tags, new without tags and used. 

As I have said to eBay repeatedly, the buyer simply wants to know from you if it's genuine or fake but the overall condition is part of the seller / buyer process and you whispering in their ear - is not helping!

As sellers we need more of an input into this, or we'll just do business of eBay. We need to be in the loop and not excluded from emails to the buyer about why...... It's our property we're selling after all. 

If the authenticators have ANY reason to suspect a bag, sneakers etc. they'll flat reject it - rather than be wrong. However it's only a matter of time before a superfake gets through, and probably it'll be a set up from a You Tuber or journo.

I can hardly wait! 

[albertabrightalberta]

---

@nwlondonhammer wrote:

they're spending too much effort on picking apart the listing description, which is covered already by SNAD.

---

While I agree with most of your comments, I disagree with the above. 

As for spending too much time verifying condition, they MUST do that, particularly if the seller is one with a no return policy.

With AG items (and especially no return items), ebay acts as the buyer would, verifying not only authenticity but accuracy of the listing since once items pass the verification and go to the buyer, they are sent in accordance with the seller's return policy. So if the seller doesn't accept returns and they send the authentic item to the buyer and the buyer finds "conditional" issues, ebay will be on the hook. 

And that's why ebay goes over both authenticity and accuracy of the listing with a fine tooth comb.

Buyers CANNOT file SNAD because items were already verified as "as described." 

[nwlondonhammer]

So what did we do before?

We listed in accordance with the parameters available. Now, if they are going over listings with this intensity, then we need a host of new options to select when listing - in order to satisfy them and make sure we don't get eBay putting doubt into a customer's mind for no reason other than they "can't be sure". 

That means to a customer who's taking Bay's word as gospel,  it's fake - glass half empty rather than genuine - glass half full. Or not, depending which particular authenticator we have to do the job! 

Buyers can still file SNAD. They  can disagree with the authenticator's findings.  I have, when my patent Dior listed as "pristine" arrived "sticky", where the patent leather has degraded due to age. So, how did that pass authentication against the listing? eBay CS couldn't get their heads round that at all.

There is no obvious consistency, it is subjective, and is a problem that's only going to get bigger.

[galsmart]

"eBay need to either restrict to Genuine v Fake OR introduce a 30 point listing form so that the seller and eBay cover the same points on as listing. "

Your lips to God's ears!

[albertabrightalberta]

---

@nwlondonhammer wrote:

So what did we do before?

We listed in accordance with the parameters available. Now, if they are going over listings with this intensity, then we need a host of new options to select when listing - in order to satisfy them and make sure we don't get eBay putting doubt into a customer's mind for no reason other than they "can't be sure". 

That means to a customer who's taking Bay's word as gospel,  it's fake - glass half empty rather than genuine - glass half full. Or not, depending which particular authenticator we have to do the job! 

Buyers can still file SNAD. They  can disagree with the authenticator's findings.  I have, when my patent Dior listed as "pristine" arrived "sticky", where the patent leather has degraded due to age. So, how did that pass authentication against the listing? eBay CS couldn't get their heads round that at all.

---

Understand that I'm not arguing your points. They are absolutely valid and I totally agree that the system isn't perfect. In fact, it's imperfect enough that I won't sell any item in the AG brands at the pricepoint requiring that the item go to the authenticators. I sold an LV bag at $499 to stay under the $500 threshhold. 

My point is that should a buyer file NAD, ebay will have to eat the loss, or so they say in the policy. 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-tools/ebay-authenticity-guarantee?id=4644&st=3&pos=1&query...

Returns with Authenticity Guarantee

If a buyer wants to return an authenticated item, your return policy as stated in the listing will apply. Authenticated items are covered by eBay Money Back Guarantee, assuming all other eligibility criteria are met. For full details, read our eBay Money Back Guarantee policy.

When returning an item, the buyer will send it back to the authenticators who will check that the item is still in the same condition and has all relevant accessories. Once the item has been re-authenticated, it will be returned to you and the buyer's refund will be processed.

To learn more, see our detailed Authenticity Guarantee help pages:

• Handbags and wallets help page

https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-handbags-seller/

eBay Authenticity Guarantee

Items that display the Authenticity Guarantee badge in the listing are first shipped to an authenticator who inspects the item prior to delivery to the buyer. This inspection ensures that the item purchased matches the listing description and verifies the item's authenticity.

Authenticity Guarantee purchases are covered by eBay Money Back Guarantee as detailed in this policy, with specific requirements and/or exclusions detailed below.

If an authenticated item is eligible to be returned, the buyer will be asked to ship the item back to the authentication facility for inspection to ensure that the item is being returned in the same condition.