Advice please. Suspect its fake but cannot prove so ebay will close in seller's favor.

[veechan23]

I suspected a dress I received was fake.  I explained to the seller with clear HQ photos of why the details, stitching, color, and fabric of the dress were incorrect.  She was insistent it is authentic but could not provide an invoice.  I've seen, felt, and tried on the real one before.  This dress has a weird smell, the fabric is not silk even though the real one is 100% silk, and it does not have the dry clean/composition care tag that are inside all of the brand's dresses.  When I brought this up, she then told me she purchased it at an outlet as a sample/protoype piece and sample pieces do not have care labels.  

I don't believe this brand releases their sample design dresses to the public market but I can't disprove this claim either.  I contacted the brand via call and email.  The US customer service girl on the phone said she doesn't know anything about this and has not heard of it before but cannot confirm since the seller claimed she bought it from an outlet in Australia.  The brand emailed me back that it is not a genuine product and recommend I do not buy from this seller again but eBay cannot accept this email as proof. 

I posted on a forum about how to spot fakes for this brand and others have said it's a replica.  I'm at a loss since eBay does not see this as valid evidence.  I read before that eBay says if there are strong indicators an item is not authentic, then I am protected under their money back guarantee.  Am I though?  I don't feel protected. 

I opened a return for refund and selected the reason "doesn't seem authentic" because I could not find an "item not described" reason from the options available.  The brand says they cannot authenticate the dress even if I brought it in-store because I did not buy it through them.  An eBay reps on the phone told me the return case will close in the seller's favor as I cannot authenticate it.  From there I can appeal with the reason item not as described to force the seller to pay for the return shipping label.  

What if this seller creates a shipping label that has the slowest imaginable delivery time from Australia to the US in the hopes it will get lost or returned to me?  What if she has me ship it back to a fake address?  Is this possible?  From here, can anything go wrong?  I have no idea how this will play out anymore.  

Kindly,
Frustrated buyer

[city*satins]

Let us know what happens won't you?

[albertabrightalberta]

The problem in this case is that the seller is in Australia and the buyer/OP is in the US.

SNAD for international transactions doesn't require that the seller pay return shipping.

[veechan23]

Yes I will reply with the final outcome for this case so I can warn others of this too.

I hope that is not the case.  The eBay rep told me I am protected by their money back guarantee and in the case the seller does not pay for the return label, I will be refunded in full.  

I have taken everyone's suggestions and policy information to heart.  I have a much better understanding of how to handle the return shipping from here assuming I win the appeal.

Thank you all for your words of wisdom!  

[fossil_diver]

It may be authentic. Items sold at outlet stores are often of lower quality even though they were made by the same company.

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@veechan23 wrote:

@albertabrightalberta
Hi yes this is a Zimmermann dress but not that one.  I have not left any feedback for this as the case is still open.  

I did compare apples to apples.  I showed photos of the real one and how it's supposed to look with photos of the fake one with close ups of the details that are incorrect (i.e., stitching close up, size tag close up, non-elasticized non-scrunchy sleeve cuff close up, no loop sewn into the dress to attach the waist string to the dress).  It's itchy, not silky, it feels like a nylon bath body scrub, and a poor imitation of silk-chiffon rather than silk-georgette.

Majority of my zimmermann dresses are from reputable online retailers and I would say I'm familiar with this brand to know when something is fake.  I recently bought a few on here trying to get some pre-owned and they have all been great transactions too.  I was very careful asking for pictures and making sure the tags were right.  But this person just lied all over.     

I called back and forced eBay to close the case in the seller's favor for not authentic.  They will let me appeal for SNAD instead and assured me I will win the SNAD case.

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Your last paragraph concerns me.  What do you mean forced to close in the sellers favor ?

[veechan23]

@myangelandmyprincess
Hi

Perhaps my choice of words was not specific enough.  eBay put a temporary hold for 10 days so I could get the dress authenticated.  I explained this was just not possible.  I am not in LA, FL, or NYC to walk into a store.  It didn't make sense to keep the case open 10 days longer for me to prove authenticity if the brand won't help me.  I called eBay back, explained, and told them I wanted (forced) the case to close today so I can appeal.  Rather than wait 10 days for me to authenticate (HOW?!) and then appeal.  So they closed and it's already in appeal mode. 

The brand told me they do not offer a certificate of authentication if I did not purchase it directly from them.  Because I admitted I purchased it from eBay they don't sign any authenticity forms.  They further explained without a valid proof of purchase through them or one of their official stockists (e.g. Saks, Neimans, Barneys, etc.) they only work with purchases from their stockists to authenticate.  She told me that they do provide documentation for authenticating and investigate with the stockist.  Just they will not authenticate if the purchase was made through eBay, Facebook, or other secondhand markets.

Hopefully that clears that up.

[veechan23]

Perhaps, I have no idea.  But wouldn't this would be considered item not as described if it were?

Her listing did not mention it was a sample/prototype/pre-production dress.

[lacemaker3]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:
The problem in this case is that the seller is in Australia and the buyer/OP is in the US.

SNAD for international transactions doesn't require that the seller pay return shipping.

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Actually, yes it does. With a SNAD, international sellers are still required to pay for the return shipping, even though eBay can't provide a prepaid return label in this case.

The seller is expected to send the money for the return shipping to the buyer. eBay gives the seller 5 business days to do this. If they don't either refund, provide a label, or send the money for return shipping, then the buyer can contact eBay and they will refund the full purchase price without requiring the buyer to return the item.

However, if the buyer decides to pay for the return shipping up-front, then eBay can't refund that amount. The buyer would be dependent on the seller to do the right thing and refund the cost of return shipping.

[veechan23]

@albertabrightalberta
Thank you for confirming this!  

If it wasn't for this thread I might have actually bought the shipping label and now know the best thing for me is to absolutely not pay for the return shipping if the seller won't.

I completely agree that it is risky to trust the seller to do the right thing and issue the refund.  

[lacemaker3]

I'm not Alberta, but if you meant that thank you for me, then you're welcome.

I'm going through an international return myself at the moment. 

[veechan23]

I am so sorry @lacemaker3

Yes, I was referring to you ^^;

Good luck on your international return as well!  I wish you all the best with your return and thanks so much for sharing your insight on SNAD returns.

[albertabrightalberta]

@lacemaker3,

Thank you for the explanation. I didn't think sellers in international transactions were required to pay return shipping.

[city*satins]

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@lacemaker3 wrote:

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:
The problem in this case is that the seller is in Australia and the buyer/OP is in the US.

SNAD for international transactions doesn't require that the seller pay return shipping.

---

Actually, yes it does. With a SNAD, international sellers are still required to pay for the return shipping, even though eBay can't provide a prepaid return label in this case.

The seller is expected to send the money for the return shipping to the buyer. eBay gives the seller 5 business days to do this. If they don't either refund, provide a label, or send the money for return shipping, then the buyer can contact eBay and they will refund the full purchase price without requiring the buyer to return the item.

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I have never been clear how this information is conveyed to eBay during the 5 business day period.  Is the seller offered a passway screen from which to issue a Paypal payment to the buyer or a screen in which to enter a Paypal transaction number or proof of payment to the buyer?    

[city*satins]

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@veechan23 wrote:

Perhaps, I have no idea.  But wouldn't this would be considered item not as described if it were?

Her listing did not mention it was a sample/prototype/pre-production dress.

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This is a long standing debate, never resolved - whether items purchased at outlet malls should be identified as such.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@city*satins wrote:

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@veechan23 wrote:

Perhaps, I have no idea.  But wouldn't this would be considered item not as described if it were?

Her listing did not mention it was a sample/prototype/pre-production dress.

---

This is a long standing debate, never resolved - whether items purchased at outlet malls should be identified as such.

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If an item is made by the company whose name is on it, it's authentic and legally allowed to be sold, whether an outlet item, a boutique item or purchased from a discounter like TJ Maxx/Marshall's/Nordstrom Rack, etc. 

IMO, a buyer should have some responsibility in knowing what she's buying, whether an item is a MFF item or boutique style and whether it's what she wants.