Warning to all sports card sellers! Attempted buyer fraud on sealed sports packs and boxes.

[cccentral]

This is just a notice to all veteran and rookie sellers out there.  I got a message today from a buyer trying to scam me for a refund on a sealed pack that I sold.  Technically in Ebays eyes I will likely lose this case.  This is my listing item title: 1998 UPPER DECK BLACK DIAMOND NFL FOOTBALL PACK PEYTON MANNING RC NEW SEALED. I put Peyton Manning RC in the title to identify what rookie that can be pulled from this sealed pack. The buyer sends me this message after opening the pack.  Sorry the message starts from the bottom.

I partially blanked out this seller name.  DM me if you feel you have been scammed this same idiot.  We honest sellers need to get these scammers kicked off of ebay.  

Your previous message:

Hi, I apologize if you assumed there would be a guaranteed Peyton Manning RC in factory sealed 1998 UD football packs. This listing does not guarantee that there is a Peyton Manning rookie in the factory sealed pack. This is the first time anyone has addressed this over the 32 years that I have sold on Ebay and at my retail establishment. I do see that you are a seller on Ebay here; selling graded sports football cards. I assume you are very familiar with sports packs and boxes and odds collations? Please advise on how you would like to proceed forward. Thank you for your patience and understanding. 

kkfg___

Ah didn’t see the “possibility “ in the listing.

Your previous message:

Hello, this listing is for a sealed Upper Deck Black Diamond football pack only; with the possibility of pulling a Payton Manning RC card. cccentral

kkgfg____:

I got this but no manning rookie?

I expecting some of you on the forum are going to blast me on my listing and the title.  I have been on Ebay for 26 years and have been scammed many times by **bleep** bags on ebay.   The buyer here is trying to force a refund even though I am certain he know that the pack has a random chance of getting said Peyton Manning rookie.  Primary reason is that he is a sports card seller on ebay selling Peyton Manning cards as high as $825.00.  My experience on scams against my account are 80%+ sellers on ebay.  This is why so many people do not trust Ebay because of idiots like this.   With this being said I noticed recently many sellers are changing their listing titles to combat these sports card scams stating possible rookie.  Meantime, this is a red flag for me to change all of my sealed sports and non-sports headings to combat this issue.  I noticed also recently that many other sellers who listed as I do starting to change their wording in the listing titles. This is likely because scammers are aware of this scam hack to defraud sellers.   I want other sellers to know that this is going to explode into a bunch of scammers playing the ebay system claiming "not as described".  Not even sure if this has already exploded and I have just been lucky.    Special note to you **bleep** bag scammers reading this; particularly the seller scammers.  Do you really have to be such a low life loser to scam sellers on Ebay?  The irony here is that as a seller you have no moral compass in life; Pretty pathetic I would say. 

[melda58]

I'm confused.  Didn't he agree all was fine once he realized the word possiblity was in your title? 

("Ah didn’t see the “possibility “ in the listing.")   I don't understand why you belabored the issue unless there was more to the buyer's response that you didn't share here.  

Rita

[maxine*j]

eBay policy:

"Singling out any individual item with significant monetary or collectible value that “may” be included in the contents is not allowed"

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items

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[sonomabarn67]

Maybe I'm not understanding but if I was buying something that said Peyton Manning for $500 and there was no Peyton Manning in the box I too, would take exception. If this is how you have been selling these like this for years (on the chance there MIGHT be a Peyton Manning in the box and there was not) with no one complaining, you are what I call...lucky! Is there a Sports board where your query might be better directed to?

[cccentral]

I am bringing this up as a concern because the buyer was trying to push for a refund or compensation.   It is my opinion the buyer was fully aware that there is no guarantee of the card described in the description.  This is a common practice for sellers to identify a key cards or inserts that can be pulled in the pack of cards which is random.   I was indicating in my comments that sellers should be concerned and consider rewording their title listing to avoid dealing with scammers in the future.   I have been lucky as one of the repliers stated. It is my intention to reword my titles avoid such issues in the future. 

[cccentral]

Chance listing more related to mystery packages the have been created by the seller.  Not quite related to my subject.  BTW,  I see thousands of these listings in the trading cards collectible section that are chance listings.   I reported ones that were clearly fraudulent to ebay in the past and not a single thing has been done.  Even reviews of the seller for chance listings stated such and listings have never been removed or modified to this date.  

[cccentral]

Thank for your reference to Sports board.  Yes I am lucky.  I did not state there was a $500 in the title.  Often I would put a rookies name with a question mark(?) in the title if the product had the particular rookie pull potential.  I thought nothing much of it until today.   It made me realize that this is an issue that I need to correct thus my warning to other honest sellers.  I see thousands of listing doing the same thing I have done and just wanted to warn other sellers that this can be problematic if addressed by the buyer.  That being said this particular buyer/seller seems very aware of how sports packs are designed (random cards); yet he sends a message stating. To me the intent was clear until I replied back that he was an experience seller with knowledge of sports pack product.  He has yet to reply back :

kkgfg____:

I got this but no manning rookie?

I would also like to point out the 60%+ of most false claims are from ebay buy/seller themselves playing the ebay system.   I have had several of these sellers kicked off of ebay over the last few years that tried to scam me and/or ebay.  One bonehead seller/buyer had a 2500+ rating who tried to claim I sent him "item not as described" ($375.00 item) and sent back an empty box.   He was caught only because box was weighed by a shipping facility when he shipped it back and there was a clear inconsistency in weight.   Original ebay sided with the buyer stating I had no proof that the buy sent back an empty box until I found a paper trail of the box weight.   I got him kicked off of Ebay because of this.  This seller was running a somewhat successful business on ebay but chose to screw it up with this scam.  

Anyways, nuff said.  Thanks for all of the replies.  cccentral

[maxine*j]

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@cccentral wrote:

...  Often I would put a rookies name with a question mark(?) in the title if the product had the particular rookie pull potential...

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eBay policy:

"Listings can't include keywords with question marks, as this can be misleading for buyers. If any item details are unclear or unknown, they should be left out of the listing."

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/search-browse-manipulation-policy?id=4243

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[maxine*j]

Can you imagine selling a lot of books this way: BOOK LOT 100 HARDBACKS MODERN LITERATURE 1ST ED HEMINGWAY?

How about a lot of 25 paintings? OIL PAINTINGS LOT 25 UNSTRETCHED CANVAS POP OP ART ORIGINAL WARHOL?

Or, maybe: PORCELAIN FIGURINES LOT 50 MALE FEMALE PERIOD COSTUMES EARLY MEISSEN?

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[joels-retrocade]

Oh common..  He knows exactly what he's doing and you shouldn't have to put possibility in the listing.  If he is selling graded sports cards you **bleep** well know he knows what's up and how packs of cards work. Scum bag behaviour

[cccentral]

Thanks for your reply.  While I respect some of the other who commented; I was pointing out that how more and more "scum bags" are trying to play other honest sellers.  Most of my cases are from sellers!  I have been scammed by other sellers for items as much as $1k.  I am just warning other sellers that sellers like the one in my comments was trying to play me.  I replied by stating he was a seller of high ticket cards and asked why he is unaware that sealed packs are random. I did this to back him into a corner to be honest regarding the situation.   We both know where he was heading with his first question. He was trying to push for a free pack refund.   "Scum bag" probably did this before.

Reason I originally put the potential pull in the title was the fact that thousands of other dealers were doing the same; right or wrong.   I would also like to point out that the box or back of package also highlight singles often in small print (so is this misrepresenting?)  Buying factory sealed packs of sports card, Pokemon,  movie non-sports packs.... often point out potential pulls on package or box.   

[sonomabarn67]

Can you clean this up a bit? Most of us come here to try and help other posters and to find pleasure in doing that. I find it offensive to have to  keep having  to sift through the rough comments. If that is how you are communicating with other ebayers, I'm thinking it might be the cause of misunderstandings,

[cccentral]

Offensive? You are thinking too much into it if it hurting your feelings  lol!   I will seriously try to be more considerate in my language in the future. 

[ms.rodriguez*]

You have been lucky if no other buyer complained. Most probably did not open their boxes. This one did and expected that Manning card for the 500 dollars that he paid.  The title is a bit deceptive.  Many buyers don't read  or read completely.  They did not see the word "possibly."    That is like selling a broken radio and saying I don't know if it works.  Of course, the buyer will buy it hoping that it works and if it doesn't , they want their money back.   I am sure that you will you lose this case. At least, ask for the cards back before refunding. Hopefully the buyer returns all of the cards in nice condition and you can still make a few bucks reselling them.

[maxine*j]

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@sonomabarn67 wrote:

Can you clean this up a bit? Most of us come here to try and help other posters and to find pleasure in doing that. I find it offensive to have to  keep having  to sift through the rough comments. If that is how you are communicating with other ebayers, I'm thinking it might be the cause of misunderstandings,

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It's to do with the demographic.  If you ever visit the Selling forum or the Buying forum, you'll see that trading card folks appear to spend as much time calling one another vile names and hurling about nasty accusation as they do buying and selling.  It's a demographic thing.

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