eBay

fierogt88 · ‎03-26-2020

2/13: Made eBay purchase for 2 items below for the total of $23.74 with combined shipping of ($5.99 + $1.99*4 + $9.79). The payment was paid with PayPal.
5/8" T-SLOT NUT (1/2-13)
1/2-13 X 1",1/2-13 X 1-1/2",1/2-13 X 3-1/2" SOCKET HEAD CAP SCREW SET 9 BOLTS
Shipping: $9.79
Never received any tracking number or communication from the seller until 2/24.
2/24: File 2 eBay disputes for item not received and request FULL refund.
2/26: Seller provided USPS tracking number for BOTH items but only one item number was shipped.
2/26: Receive a partial refund of $7.96
No refund on tax and shipping fee of $7.96*6% + ($9.79 - $ 8.25). This should be illegal.
2/28: The package was received.
Comment: packaged was mailed out 2 days after dispute was filed on the same day that a refund was provided for another item. This is the seller’s mistake to mail out the order after a dispute was filed requesting refund. Nut and bolt are needed to be used in pair. It is useless to have bolt without nut.
eBay sided with the seller even on my incidents requested FULL refund, not the items. Then closed the incident. I appealed the decision but eBay kept the decision.

I opened an incident with Amex and Amex refunded my money withing 2 days. The key point is “Requested for a FULL refund, not the items” but the seller insisted sending one item.
What I learn from this incident.
1. PayPal:
a. Never pay for any eBay item with PayPal balance. Always is credit card as prefer method.
b. Setup one bank account that links to PayPal and keeps very low balance.
2. Document everything, I can (including taking snapshots).
3. Credit card can provide the second layer of protection in the event that eBay sides with seller.
4. Fight a good fight.
You can make your own decision. For me, eBay made the wrong decision to sided with the seller but I had never accepted its decision.

7606dennis · ‎03-26-2020

Did you request a return? You are not entitled to a fool refund and be allowed to keep any portion of the purchase. You should have filed a return request using a not as described reason and the seller would have been required to pay the return shipping. Of course, you would have been required to what you had received.

"It is an intelligent man that is aware of his own ignorance."

fierogt88 · ‎03-26-2020

Yes, I asked for a return shipping label but the case was closed. No further actions are allowed. I am willing to ship it back with seller's expense since I opened the incident with full refund, not ship the item.

pburn · ‎03-26-2020

@fierogt88 wrote:
Never received any tracking number or communication from the seller until 2/24.

Sellers are not required to give buyers the tracking number. Tracking numbers are to protect sellers from buyers claiming that purchases have not been delivered. They serve absolutely no other purpose.

@fierogt88 wrote:
2/26: Seller provided USPS tracking number 9405508205496103085330 for BOTH items but only eBay item number: 153828585944 was shipped.

When a buyer opens an "Item Not Received" (INR) refund request with eBay, the protocol is for the seller to to upload the tracking number at that time, which is apparently what your seller did. The tracking number appears to have been for both items; however, "appears" is the operative word. Because you ordered the two items together, the package was assigned one tracking number. The same would have been true had you ordered five or ten of those items--there would have only been one tracking number, not five or ten. Tracking numbers are assigned to packages, not individual items.

@fierogt88 wrote:

2/26: Receive a partial refund of $7.96 for eBay item number: 152685573690.
No refund on tax and shipping fee of $7.96*6% + ($9.79 - $ 8.25). This should be illegal.

I'm not really sure what the above formula represents. Is $7.96 x 6% the amount of sales tax you were charged? If so, it's eBay, not the seller, who will be refunding the sales tax. It will be refunded in a separate credit transaction from eBay, since it is eBay that collects the sales tax from buyers.

You should have been reimbursed $1.54 for shipping on the canceled order, with eBay refunding the appropriate sales tax paid on the refunded amount of shipping, if any.

@fierogt88 wrote:
2/28: The package was received.

If the package was received, you lose your case for the item not being received, because, well, it was received . . .

@fierogt88 wrote:
Comment: packaged was mailed out 2 days after dispute was filed on the same day that a refund was provided for another item. This is the seller’s mistake to mail out the order after a dispute was filed requesting refund.

When a buyer files an INR, the seller has an opportunity to correct the error. The seller corrected the error by sending the item. It is not "the seller's mistake," it is his/her right to do so.

@fierogt88 wrote:
eBay sided with the seller even on my incidents requested FULL refund, not the items. Then closed the incident. I appealed the decision but eBay kept the decision.

In this case, it doesn't matter what you requested. The seller had the perfect right to respond to the INR dispute by mailing the item.

@fierogt88 wrote:
I opened an incident with Amex and Amex refunded my money withing 2 days. The key point is “Requested for a FULL refund, not the items” but the seller insisted sending one item.

So now you have at least part of the order and all your money back? Plus the money the seller already refunded you? And the sales tax eBay will probably refund you also? Wow. You made out like a bandit.

I'll bet you've ended up on a lot of people's blocked buyer's list for this kind of thing. I think I'll also check Facebook's eBay scammers pages to see if your member id shows up anywhere.

pburn · ‎03-26-2020

@fierogt88 wrote:
Yes, I asked for a return shipping label but the case was closed. No further actions are allowed. I am willing to ship it back with seller's expense since I opened the incident with full refund, not ship the item.

You wanted the seller to provide a return shipping label? After you lost the INR?

Oh, boy. This just keeps getting better and better.

pburn · ‎03-26-2020

@7606dennis wrote:
Did you request a return? You are not entitled to a fool refund and be allowed to keep any portion of the purchase. You should have filed a return request using a not as described reason and the seller would have been required to pay the return shipping. Of course, you would have been required to what you had received.

@7606dennis

The items were as described. The seller sent one of the items that was ordered but canceled the other item. There was nothing in the OP about the items not being as described. A SNAD would not have been an accurate, honest reason for a return. The only accurate, honest reason for the return would have been "Changed my mind," and the OP should have paid for his own return shipping.

7606dennis · ‎03-26-2020

@pburn wrote:
@7606dennis wrote:
Did you request a return? You are not entitled to a fool refund and be allowed to keep any portion of the purchase. You should have filed a return request using a not as described reason and the seller would have been required to pay the return shipping. Of course, you would have been required to what you had received.
@7606dennis

The items were as described. The seller sent one of the items that was ordered but canceled the other item. There was nothing in the OP about the items not being as described. A SNAD would not have been an accurate, honest reason for a return. The only accurate, honest reason for the return would have been "Changed my mind," and the OP should have paid for his own return shipping.

Sorry, I must have misread the OP's original post. Too much extraneous detail for my taste. I was under the impression that he was complaining about buying two items and only receiving one of is purchases but the same tracking used for both. My mistake.

If the seller canceled the one transaction the OP should be able to leave feedback for that one, I believe. As you point out, the OP may have to pay the return shipping on the other if the seller has his return policy set for the buyer to pay return shipping on remorse returns. Of course, if the seller has their return policy set to NO RETURNS the OP wouldn't be able to return that one at all.

"It is an intelligent man that is aware of his own ignorance."

pburn · ‎03-26-2020

@7606dennis wrote:
As you point out, the OP may have to pay the return shipping on the other if the seller has his return policy set for the buyer to pay return shipping on remorse returns. Of course, if the seller has their return policy set to NO RETURNS the OP wouldn't be able to return that one at all.

Seller has "30 day returns. Buyer pays for return shipping." for both listings.

mudshark61369 · ‎03-27-2020

@fierogt88,

"2/13: Made eBay purchase for 2 items

2/24: File 2 eBay disputes for item not received and request FULL refund".

What was the last estimated delivery date on the listing?

2/26: Seller provided USPS tracking number for BOTH items...

2/26: Receive a partial refund of $7.96

2/28: The package was received. but only one item number was shipped.

eBay sided with the seller even on my incidents requested FULL refund, not the items. Then closed the incident. I appealed the decision but eBay kept the decision.

Sellers have 3 days to respond to a return request or dispute, and this one did by providing tracking. eBay would then go by what the tracking information stated (delivered) and close the dispute.

When you appealed the decision did you provide information showing only one item was shipped, (like a photo of the package with only some of what you ordered in it) and tell them that the partial refund didn't cover the full cost and shipping of the item(s) not received? You have to do that when you appeal. You also could have called ebay and spoken to a rep asking them to change the dispute from an item not received to a not as described as soon as possible after receiving the package.

If your appeal was as poorly explained as this topic is, I can understand why you might have lost the dispute.

Your talking points are OK but you left out two very important ones.

1) Before buying from a seller go to their feedback profile and read any negative and neutral comments they've received.

2) Read the Money Back Guarantee policy.

"3. Credit card can provide the second layer of protection in the event that eBay sides with seller".

Actually credit cards provide a 3rd layer of protection. PayPal provides the second layer. By not trying to go through them and going straight to Am-ex, it could lead to you to having your PayPal purchase protections restricted.

"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FOOLPROOF, BECAUSE FOOLS ARE SO DARNED INGENIOUS!" (unknown)

fierogt88 · ‎03-27-2020

The points that I tried to make are 1. You will not get sale tax refund if you pay 2 or more in the same transaction. You get refund only for the items' cost. 2. You will not get the shipping cost back for the items that you get the refund. I know that my transaction is not much. However, if the transaction was $2,300, it would be substantiated. BTW, I will buy big items from reputable seller like Rockler, Walmart or Amazon. I listed a generator on Craigslist last year. Buyer put down $500 non-refundable deposit via PayPal. The buyer backed off 2 weeks later. The buyer open an incident with PayPal, PayPal sided with the buyer and withheld my money. I opened an incident with Amex, Amex sided with me since I provided my communication between the buyer and me. It showed that the buyer knew that it is non-refundable. It took about 3 months to get the money. It isn't necessary that PayPal or eBay make the right decision in every incidents. I will fight if I think that I am right. I wish eBay or PayPal have representatives who have law background review any appeal cases.

fierogt88 · ‎03-27-2020

Well, I disagreed with you on the return shipping cost. I requested a refund, not send the item when I opened the incident. How is it my fault?

The seller sent the one item after I opened the incident.

fierogt88 · ‎03-27-2020

When a buyer opens an "Item Not Received" (INR) refund request with eBay, the protocol is for the seller to to upload the tracking number at that time, which is apparently what your seller did. The tracking number appears to have been for both items; however, "appears" is the operative word. Because you ordered the two items together, the package was assigned one tracking number. The same would have been true had you ordered five or ten of those items--there would have only been one tracking number, not five or ten. Tracking numbers are assigned to packages, not individual items.

The seller shipped the one item after I opened the incident. Additional, the incident requested a refund, not send the item but the seller sent the item instead.

It also misleading that the seller put the tracking number on the item that had not shipped and already gave a refund.

outdatedrecreated · ‎03-27-2020

Did anyone else instantly block this buyer? Just curious.

anbru_2350 · ‎03-27-2020

Holy snikey at the feedback left for others...then there is the irony of the feedback received

fierogt88 · ‎03-27-2020

I won't buy from this seller anyway. I don't see why it is the buyer fault since I requested a refund, not ship the item.
I don't buy big item from eBay anyway. There are thousands on sellers on eBay. This is capitalism. Buyers free to buy from anyone. There is no monopoly here.