Too Good To Be True

[no_zero369]

Gosh, I found something I want to buy (Optima Digital 1200 )  at a GREAT price!  I mean similar models sell for ~200, but this buyer has the item on sale for $76!  Wow!  Great deal! Plus it is the Last One! 

So no doubt seller is desperate and wants to get rid of the last one of many and is offering a super deal.  I mean look at this - seller has a 100% Feedback score!  WOW!  What could go wrong.  And Free Shipping - everyone LOVEs free shipping

Then I look closer.  Oh shoot that FB score is only for 3 ratings.  Oh well, gosh a guy has got to start somewhere.  But only one FB is from being a seller and that one feedback is a green doughnut and the text on that says the buyer didn't get the $66 item.

But then they have a 'no returns' policy, er, what happens if it comes broke?  Then I can't return it?  But gosh the price is SO GOOD!  It might just be worth  the gamble.  After all eBay has a MBG, doesn't it? (whatever that means)

So I think I'll try it!  After all, it IS a great deal and what could go wrong?  Yeah, that's the ticket, I love a bargain and looks like I found one - gotta act FAST before someone else snatches this up!

**************************************

Can't believe what I was seeing with 🚩 red flags 🚩 all over it!  Posted this to give an idea of what likely goes through a buyers mind while ignoring the flags and convincing them self to buy anyway.

If it looks TGTBT it probably is.

[fab_finds4u]

Yep.

[10b00ks]

Sir, this is a casino.

[oneblindcat]

Oh yeah, great deal. Hard to see the details with all of those red flags obscuring the view, though.

Check their "completed listings". They seem to have duplicates of  everything, all high-dollar items at ridiculously low prices.

This is either a scammer or a wholesale shoplifter dumping stolen property.

[lightlily_arts]

Not just last one.  Only one.  If you look at the revision history he revised the quantity 8 times so the changes made it look like he had sold some.  However,  I suspect he never had any quantities to begin with and the quantity changes are misleading.  Based on trending prices I can't imagine he would undercut other sellers or MSRP  by offering a 60% reduction in price.  With a shipping weight of at least 8 pounds it's a steal. Perhaps it's stolen but I'm opting for scam.  Likely the Amazon trinket scam that's sent to another address in your zip code

[mudshark61369]

@no_zero369,

There could be a dozen more red flags, but they would all be ignored by those people whose common sense goes right out the window as soon as they see a too good to be true price.  I think it is something in their DNA.

[valueaddedresource]

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@no_zero369 wrote:

Gosh, I found something I want to buy (Optima Digital 1200 )  at a GREAT price!  I mean similar models sell for ~200, but this buyer has the item on sale for $76!  Wow!  Great deal! Plus it is the Last One! 

So no doubt seller is desperate and wants to get rid of the last one of many and is offering a super deal.  I mean look at this - seller has a 100% Feedback score!  WOW!  What could go wrong.  And Free Shipping - everyone LOVEs free shipping

Then I look closer.  Oh shoot that FB score is only for 3 ratings.  Oh well, gosh a guy has got to start somewhere.  But only one FB is from being a seller and that one feedback is a green doughnut and the text on that says the buyer didn't get the $66 item.

But then they have a 'no returns' policy, er, what happens if it comes broke?  Then I can't return it?  But gosh the price is SO GOOD!  It might just be worth  the gamble.  After all eBay has a MBG, doesn't it? (whatever that means)

So I think I'll try it!  After all, it IS a great deal and what could go wrong?  Yeah, that's the ticket, I love a bargain and looks like I found one - gotta act FAST before someone else snatches this up!

**************************************

Can't believe what I was seeing with 🚩 red flags 🚩 all over it!  Posted this to give an idea of what likely goes through a buyers mind while ignoring the flags and convincing them self to buy anyway.

If it looks TGTBT it probably is.

---

Sounds *exactly* like the over 150 hijacked accounts being used for triangulation fraud I've reported to eBay in the last year.

They can afford to list products for 50%+ off retail because they turn around and "drop ship" it from Amazon or a legitimate online retailer using a stolen credit card, so they aren't really paying for it.

Yes, buyers need to be aware and heed all those red flag warnings, but eBay bears a huge amount of responsibility in my opinion.  There are many things they could do to try to proactively address the situation, but they have very little incentive to do so when all those fraud sales help prop up their GMV.

[mudshark61369]

@valueaddedresource,

  "Yes, buyers need to be aware and heed all those red flag warnings, but eBay bears a huge amount of responsibility in my opinion. There are many things they could do to try to proactively address the situation, but they have very little incentive to do so when all those fraud sales help prop up their GMV."

What besides hiring real people to validate each of the millions of new listings posted each day from around the world do to be more proactive?  There are already things buyers can do to avoid buying from a hi-jacked account, starting with checking feedback profile pages, and reading everything in a listing. If ebay were to start pulling sellers listings just because they look like a possible scam, they could run into some serious legal issues. That sort of forces ebay to be reactive in the removal of items.

As you noted there is a Report item button on listing pages that helps ebay if it is used.  However, it will not work when a triangulation scam is used in most cases, because the buyer receives the product and is usually happy. The only fall out from that is the unsuspecting buyer could be black listed from the retail site who was scammed.  The retail company who drop ships the product can only go after the legitimate card owner whose name is on the stolen card for restitution. 

Most of the TGTBT listings get pulled when the INR/INAD disputes start being opened. Often by then the listing has ended with all of the items being sold within a few days, sometimes within hours, and the account the money has been credited to (often created with stolen info) has been all but emptied out.

[no_zero369]

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@oneblindcat wrote:

Oh yeah, great deal. Hard to see the details with all of those red flags obscuring the view, though.

Check their "completed listings". They seem to have duplicates of  everything, all high-dollar items at ridiculously low prices.

This is either a scammer or a wholesale shoplifter dumping stolen property.

---

Yeah had a friend tell me the other day that they got great deals from a person and I could too!  I inquired and apparently one could get anything for 50% off list as the "seller" was a "booster!"  All I had to do was put in my "order!"  Sigh

PASS!!!!

Amazing that someone thinks that is a great idea.. double Sigh.

[no_zero369]

@lightlily_arts 

Good catch on the quantity!  I am embarrassed to say I didn't look that deeply!  I'll do that in the future.

[no_zero369]

@mudshark61369 

Oh I like a bargain, no doubt about it!  But have gotten to the place in my eBay buying that it just isn't worth it to try for much of the "bargain" stuff.  Yeah, I know how to work the MBG, but INR or NAD cases get to be tiring and time consuming.  So why put one's self in that situation?  The "next" button works just fine.

But as you note, apparently some can't help them self?  Then of course they are SHOCKED that the transaction went badly and show up in the Community for advice & consent....or hand holding.

I guess there is no accounting for common sense?

[no_zero369]

@valueaddedresource 

Oh yeah, I remember the posts on the Triangulation Scheme!  That was you?

Keep up the good work!

How could one determine if this particular post was indeed part of that scheme?  er, without making a purchase?

[divwido]

You just explained how scammers sell cars they dion't even own for gift cards.

[valueaddedresource]

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@mudshark61369 wrote:

@valueaddedresource,

  "Yes, buyers need to be aware and heed all those red flag warnings, but eBay bears a huge amount of responsibility in my opinion. There are many things they could do to try to proactively address the situation, but they have very little incentive to do so when all those fraud sales help prop up their GMV."

What besides hiring real people to validate each of the millions of new listings posted each day from around the world do to be more proactive? 

---

@mudshark61369  

There are automated ways that eBay could approach this issue to narrow it down to likely problem listings instead of each of the millions of new listings every day.  Things like monitoring when dormant accounts become active again after a certain amount of time, watching for patterns of listing products that don't fit with previous account history and/or do fit with identified fraud patterns across the marketplace, programming bots to monitor feedback for certain keywords that could indicate a problem, and more.

I'm not suggesting a completely automated process or that listings should be pulled for merely "looking" like a scam, but there is way more that could be done to flag possible problems, have trust & safety investigate, and then take the appropriate action.

I've had multiple instances where eBay has shut down accounts being used for this fraud (verified, not just suspected or "looks like"), and then a few weeks later they allow the account to be reactivated with all fraudulent listings reinstated with full history intact, just like nothing ever happened.

After re-escalating to trust & safety they were eventually shut down again, with trust & safety even admitting that whoever reactivated the accounts was wrong to do so - clearly there was no vetting or even an effort to look into why the accounts were unregistered in the first place before some support rep reactivated.

There is much more fallout to eBay enabling this kind of fraud on their platform than you seem to give credit for and I will 100% stand by my assertion there is far more eBay could be doing about this problem than they currently are.

[valueaddedresource]

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@no_zero369 wrote:

@valueaddedresource 

Oh yeah, I remember the posts on the Triangulation Scheme!  That was you?

Keep up the good work!

How could one determine if this particular post was indeed part of that scheme?  er, without making a purchase?

---

Thanks @no_zero369 !

I believe I found the listing you are referencing and, if it is the one I'm looking at, it checks off every box in the list of red flags I've personally put together after a year of deep research on the subject.  I'd put pretty high odds on it being part of a triangulation scheme.

For 100% proof, you'd likely have to order it, wait to see what company name is on the actual invoice when it shows up, then contact that company to find out if they eventually get a chargeback on the order that was placed on their site. ☹️

That's actually how we verified what was happening and I am incredibly grateful to the buyers who contacted us and were willing to give us the eBay user name they purchased from.

eBay Trust & Safety would have access to much more information, including but not limited to location origin for tracking on previous sales, whether or not it was a previously dormant account, changes to personal info and payment methods for that account, etc. that could help them identify if that account has been hijacked and used for fraud.