Shill bidding concerns resolved.

[maxi314]

I was interested in an auction item.  It had no bids, and it happens that today was the last day of the auction.  I may well be very behind in the mechanics of eBay auctions, but not so far behind as to see it as a red flag when, out of nowhere, the fact of my placing a bid causes an immediate second bidder to appear.

After doing more research about various eBay auction schemes, including complaints about the 'nonprofit' that has this item at auction, the bottom line is this:  I was lucky that there was an increase over my "winning" bid.  All I have to do is stop.  And, if this was some manner of shill, then, I hope the shiller is happy with the result.  (I know.  This isn't a question, but I hope it saves someone some grief.  

Also, even with auctions, perhaps especially so, always send a message to the seller, no matter who they are or claim to be, and see if there is any response.  If none.  Move on.  Sign out.

[campanaelia · Accepted solution]

How much time is remaining until the auction ends?

The shill that exposed your highest bid already can retract their bid at anytime before 12 hours are remaining for the end of auction. The seller can also cancel that other bid at anytime. Then a second shill will bid one increment below your highest bid to max out your bid. You're not in the clear yet, it's not over til it's over.

That's why it's best to bid in the last 10 seconds or as close to the end as possible

[redmodelt]

Most bidders don't bid till the end of the auction. 

[yuzuha]

I'm not seeing how any of that points towards shilling. Most bidding takes place on the final day (and often in the final minutes) of an auction. You placing a bid signaled that someone was in fact interested in the item, so the other bidder likely just responded to that by placing their own bid.

Also, the key point is that shills don't actually want to win, so if you got outbid and the bidder didn't retract their bid to leave you as the winner, that's not a shill.

[mudshark61369]

@maxi314,

"I may well be very behind in the mechanics of eBay auctions, but not so far behind as to see it as a red flag when, out of nowhere, the fact of my placing a bid causes an immediate second bidder to appear".

You certainly are behind in understanding the mechanics of bidding on ebay auctions.  If you did understand them you would know that what happened to you was not the result of a seller using a shill.

If you still have access to the auction, open the listing and where you see the final price there will also be the number of bids shown Example screen shot below;

If you click on the number of bids, it will open the bid history page. On that page the bids are time stamped. If you look at that you will probably see that the "Immediate second bidder" actually placed their bid before you did.  That bid was what is called an automatic bid, a bid higher than the starting price of the auction.  If your bid was only for the minimum bid required, you were immediately outbid, by the earlier automatic bid which was higher than your bid.  There is a button on a bid history page that will show the history with automatic bids in it.  Open the link below. 

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/285552349378?item=285552349378&rt=nc&_trksid=p4429486.m145235.l256...

When the second bidder on the above auction bid on Nov. 15 the auction probably showed (0) bids because only the starting price had been met. It was not until another bidder came along and placed a bid on Nov. 11, that the price started increasing. 

If you open the link below there is a section in it, explaining Automatic bidding.  If you click on the "Tips for winning auctions" button. Click on the Bid Sniping button in that article as well.

https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/bidding/bidding?id=4003

"After doing more research about various eBay auction schemes, including complaints about the 'nonprofit' that has this item at auction, the bottom line is this: I was lucky that there was an increase over my "winning" bid. All I have to do is stop. And, if this was some manner of shill, then, I hope the shiller is happy with the result. (I know. This isn't a question, but I hope it saves someone some grief".

The articles you find online are mostly written by people like you, who do not understand how ebay auctions work or know about automatic bidding or bid sniping.  Like you many are immediately out bid and start thinking the seller is using a shill, when it is not.  None of us will tell you that Shill bidding does not happen on ebay, but we can tell you it happens far less than people think, and in 99.9% of the cases where we can see a bid history, we can prove no shill was used.

FYI,  one of the problems with buying from non-profits is that the volunteers who type the info for their ebay listings often know little if anything about the items they are tasked to list. That often leads to people receiving items that are not as described, and subsequent negative feedback, and complaints about the charity/non-profit.   I know because I volunteer a few hours a week listing items for a non-profit. If my selling profile included those items, I would still have a 100% rating.

[soh.maryl]

So it's inconceivable to you that you would not be the only bidder on the final day of the auction? 

[maxi314]

Thank you for the detailed explanation.  I will never again bid on an auction item.

[maxi314]

I probably phrased something incorrectly.  I appreciate receiving your response.  As I see in another comment, the tricks played with auctions are complex and broad.  I will never again bid on an auction item.

[maxi314]

Thank you.  Indeed, I understand how eBay auctions work - not that I could find an eBay section such as "How to buy at auction."  (If it exists, then, it was impossible to find).  I did not immediately think, "shill."  I do wonder - and I assume this occurs - how quickly a seller will see that a bid has been made.  

Years ago, pre-instant communication, the online auction had safeguards it no longer has - not with most people having devices that give them instant communication.  Perhaps eBay will post your comment in a prominent location - for example, under a category titled "Buying at Auction."

[kathiec]

I've been bidding on auctions here for 27 years. Shilling isn't nearly the problem you seem to think it is. I encourage you to read mudshark's response and begin to educate yourself on the ways to spot it.

[maxi314]

Not at all.   And why the insult?  Again a "superstar" is insulting and rude.  

[maxi314]

Thank you.  I will be skipping auction items.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

There are many different legitimate bidding strategies. They range from the snipe at the end of the auction to the bid the maximum that you are willing to pay when you first see the item. Neither of those bidders is likely to be concerned about shills.

Bidders who would like to steal the item are most concerned about shills.

When I use auctions to sell, I expect there is an excellent chance that the item will sell to another reseller and it will either sell on an early bid, or a last minute snipe.

Active items with multiple bids are usually the product of a ridiculously low starting bid, and rarely sell for that, fortunately for those daring sellers who start too low.

[maxi314]

That's very helpful.  Thank you.  I won't be attempting to purchase any auction items.

[maxi314]

Please know, too, that I both contacted the seller, and telephoned the head of the online auctions.  I never heard a word, with plenty of lead time.