Seller Played Dirty Pool....Posted Free Shipping & Then Sent Item With Postage Due!

[grannygrozas]

I've been on Ebay since 1998, but I have never had this happen before. I paid for an auction for a tiny item. It was for a Hot Wheels Race Track Connector (Think of just one,  3" Plastic Tongue Depressor). This cost $5.00 + .39 cents tax & free shipping. It was expensive for what it was......yet these are a bit hard to come by in the color white.  So, I was happy with the free shipping & I figured that I had paid in full, when I paid using Paypal. 

     Also, I had purchased several items, so I was expecting about 4 different auctions to be delivered yesterday.  So,  I get a knock on my door from the mailman who is in a hurry .......& telling me he has my auction items......+ an envelope, with what came with postage due of $4.00 extra.  So the seller of the Hot Wheels Connector,  had slapped a tiny stamp on a plastic envelope......yet he left the postage to be paid by me.....with no notice or warning. 

    Now, I  had no idea what this was, or even which auction it was....since I was expecting 4 deliveries that day + one from Etsy. I was royally p.o'd to find that this tiny 1/2 ounce tongue depressor / hot wheel connector had cost me....not $5.39, but now $9.39.  Nothing was stated in the auction about any extra charges.  Yes....I did pay the postage due/ extra money...... because I had no idea what I was paying for & I wanted to find out & get the mailman on his way. The envelope also was blank (no return address or info....no tracking since it was sent first class........the only thing on the envelope was my address. I knew nothing about this, till I paid for it & opened it up. 

      Also, had I known who it was from & what it was.....I would've refused it.....but again, they left the envelope blank with a silly stamp on it.....leaving me guessing what it was.... who it was from ....& what the heck just happened. 

So my question is, "Do I have any recourse to recoup my losses?"  I know that it's only $4.00.....but the seller did me wrong & I am really steamed about the under handedness of it all. Basically the principal of it is just wrong & the seller should pay  up for their lies & **bleep** of it all. Can I do something about this?  Can I get my money back for the shipping? Any help would be very appreciative. I thank you for your time.

*** On a different note, I am getting steamed with some sellers pulling some underhanded junk. Most of my sellers, like 95% of them are just GRAND!!!  Yet, as of late (the last month) I have had 5 sellers/ auctions where the sellers have advised me that they don't have my auction items.....thanks for the quick payment, but they can't locate my items....... & then I get an instant refund. That in itself is disappointing, but I was just fine with a quick refund......... That was until I found out that these 5 sellers reported to EBay that my auctions had been cancelled at "My" request.....the request of the buyer. This is a bold face lie! I wondered if this counted against me, with EBay.....since it looks like I bid, paid & then asked to cancel & asked for a refund.

       I have all the messages & correspondences on EBay's message system saved, that show that these sellers reneged on my auctions.  One particular seller  even sent me an offer for a ring, at a $20.00  lower price......& I accepted & paid immediately. The seller then refunded my money within 3 hours, stating that even though they offered the ring at a lower price....they realized that that particular ring hasn't been seen for months, so it was likely sold somewhere else? Hmmmmm. 

        Again, I would've been fine with the refund, till I found the auction back out was blamed on myself....by all  5 sellers. I just don't want this counted against me.  Does anyone have any idea if I need to worry about this? Is there a reason why the sellers would blame the buyer? Again, I have the proof on my side, with all the correspondence through EBay, proving that they initiated the cancellation of these 5 auctions. Just needed some input, If anyone has their 2 cents to add about this, I would be very appreciative. Thanks again for any assistance you can provide me!

[nobody*s_perfect · Accepted solution]

Send the seller a message explaining what happened.  He mailed the item as a letter but apparently the USPS decided that it was a package instead.  This would happen if the envelope was more than 1/4 inch thick.  

If he fails to issue you a partial refund to cover the Postage Due amount, you can file  a claim for "Item not received." The seller has no tracking on that envelope, so he will have no protection against your claim.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

[zip-a-deedoodah]

Hey Granny, I suspect its too late, but I would have refused delivery and written on the evenly return to sender, and then filed INR claim. 

But a listing that includes the claim that postage is paid by seller, but then underhandedly puts the charge on the buyer definitely qualifies as a listing where the "item is not as described".  "Item" in this sense means the all the claims made in the listing as a whole, not just the particular item that is being sold.

[justafemster]

I'd go with nobdy's perfects solution.  And I'd leave a neg to warn other buyers.  

You do know you can leave appropriate feedback for those sellers that cancelled.

And you can report them to ebay for misuse of the cancellation process.

[grannygrozas]

Thank you all for the input & I will do what Nobody*s_Perfect had suggested. I do realize I could have refused the envelope....but needed to know what it was, what I was dealing with & get Mr. Mailman on his merry way. Once I knew what happened, I wasn't pleased. I could have been an innocent mistake, as Nobody*s_Perfect suggested, that being it was sent as a 1st class letter & they thought that would be paid in full as a letter.....but the post office saw it as a package.  It just seemed so underhanded at the time, with the no return address, etc. I did as Nobody*s_Perfect suggested & have sent them a message about the extra postage. We'll see if I get a response & as soon as I hear anything I will post it here.

On my second irk ..... regarding these cancellations of auctions because the auction items can't be located......I still have the question about "Can I be held liable for all these cancellations?"......especially since the new trend seems to be that the seller wants to blame the buyer for these back outs & cancellations of these auctions?  I can't understand why they would lie about this unless they are avoiding fees or something? Does anyone have any input about this? 

        Also I realize that I could've left negatives or neutrals, but didn't want to be petty, since my refunds were quick. Yet, I didn't know that I'd be blamed for these cancellations.....so it isn't too late to leave my feedback. Due to the lying, I will be leaving feedback that is less than spectacular.  Again I do thank you all for everything. 

[nobody*s_perfect]

I'm not aware of any penalty for buyers related to asking for cancellations.  

On the other hand, when a seller cancels a transaction they have to chose from a very short list of reasons; some of those reasons, including "Out of stock," will put a defect point on the seller's account.  Just a few of those defect points WILL lead to serious penalty fees or even suspension, so sometimes the seller chooses one of the other reasons (such as buyer requested) to avoid getting a defect point.

eBay has an explicit policy about "performance gaming" (i.e., lying about the reason for a cancellation, in order to avoid getting a defect point) but there doesn't seem to be any way for buyers to report this behavior.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/performance-gaming-policy?id=5029 

[grannygrozas]

Thank you once again Nobody*s_Perfect!  I just wanted to ensure that I wouldn't be held responsible for these auction cancellations .....and my biggest fear about that would be that EBay would try to suspend my account after so many cancellations.....cancellations that I was never responsible for.  (I would've fought it tooth & nail utilizing my correspondences).....Its just another hassle that I'd not want. This is also why I never purge any correspondences with sellers till all is said & done & I receive my items. 

Also, if I seem clueless after 24 years as a buyer......well,  I am "only" a "buyer" on EBay....so I thought I'd seen it all in the years that I'd been on. I actually used to help out on the Trust  & Safety Board,  many many moons ago.  But, now everything has changed so much.......w/ rules & regs, + now with all this new stuff that I've never dealt with before...... like my original issues w/ postage due & sellers cancelling auctions & placing responsibilities solely on the buyers, etc. 

     So, I am very grateful for all of your help & input. I thank you much for your time.  Should the seller get back to me, I'll let you know of the outcome. This seller does have a few negatives (yet,  a very high number of sales w/positives) ...... & none for anything to do with "postage's due." So we'll see how they handle it. Take care!

Granny G 😊

[fab_finds4u]

No, dirty pool is to file a dispute saying you didn't receive it when you did receive it. OP could have refused delivery and would've been covered by MBG.  Don't encourage buyers to lie. We have enough lying eyes (not the body part I wanted to say) people on eBay as it is. 

Have you asked the seller to reimburse you?  You should've asked the PO to hold it until you got the postage from the seller and they would've held it. If the seller  didn't  cough up the postage then you don't  pick it up.  You would file not received because it wasn't  received and show eBay proof of postage due.  

That is the correct way to handle it.  In my opinion. 

[kathiec]

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@zip-a-deedoodah wrote:

Hey Granny, I suspect its too late, but I would have refused delivery and written on the evenly return to sender, and then filed INR claim. 

But a listing that includes the claim that postage is paid by seller, but then underhandedly puts the charge on the buyer definitely qualifies as a listing where the "item is not as described".  "Item" in this sense means the all the claims made in the listing as a whole, not just the particular item that is being sold.

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Actually the correct case to open if you refuse a postage due package is "item not received". The MBG states that refusing a package is "Covered: The item arrived with shipping cost still owing because the seller didn't apply enough postage". Before opening the case, the buyer needs to make sure the tracking indicates there was postage due.

[nobody*s_perfect]

OP explained why he didn't just refuse the package; gave more than one reason actually. And in this particular case, refusing the package wouldn't have accomplished anything since it had no tracking and no return address.  He seems to be following the advice to contact the seller first ("Should the seller get back to me...").  But IMHO the buyer should not be out $4 on his $5.39 transaction due to the seller's error.  

[fab_finds4u]

He wouldn't  have been out any money if he refused delivery. It's  not the buyer's  problem if it went to the dead letter file because the seller was stupid.  I still say if you paid the postage due then you accepted it with higher shipping.  You're now trying to get postage back you freely paid by lying in a dispute just smacks me as being deceitful not slick.

[ainpie-10]

I have a feeling the seller just doesn’t know what they are doing. I don’t think it was underhanded as sellers know when buyers aren’t happy they will get the money back one way or another and they are out more than just more money. 
I wouldn’t be happy as the buyer but I would let the seller know how much they paid for the shipping and I probably would let the seller know in some uncertain terms if they don’t know how to pay for shipping labels properly they shouldn’t be selling on eBay to begin with. I know no one is perfect and we all have to start off learning somewhere so mistakes are bound to happen, but I would clearly state what I paid for the shipping and I expect a full reimbursement. Given the cost of the item and shipping the seller will just refund you in full and let you keep the item. They may not give back the $4.00 as when you click refund it will give you the amount you paid on eBay but you will probably just chalk it up as $4.00 for the item. 
I’m never one to say leave bad feedback for others, but in this case if he doesn’t refund you in full (meaning item plus shipping you paid) I would suggest then that this seller deserves poor feedback.

if the seller is a newbie and apologizes for his mistake and does the right thing then help the seller out by leaving positive feedback.

As for your other sellers that cancel report them to eBay! I’m tired of bad sellers making eBay look bad! Most of us are honest sellers who probably have made a mistake or two in our times on eBay, but do the right thing!!

[varebelrose]

"If he fails to issue you a partial refund to cover the Postage Due amount, you can file a claim for "Item not received." "

?? The buyer DID recieve it. And I am sure by this point the seller has documented messages from the OP stating that. Filing an INR would be lying. As wonky as CS is, theres a very good chance they would deny this claim.

[house*of*paws]

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@fab_finds4u wrote:

No, dirty pool is to file a dispute saying you didn't receive it when you did receive it. OP could have refused delivery and would've been covered by MBG.  Don't encourage buyers to lie. We have enough lying eyes (not the body part I wanted to say) people on eBay as it is. 

Have you asked the seller to reimburse you?  You should've asked the PO to hold it until you got the postage from the seller and they would've held it. If the seller  didn't  cough up the postage then you don't  pick it up.  You would file not received because it wasn't  received and show eBay proof of postage due.  

That is the correct way to handle it.  In my opinion. 

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Hi Fab @fab_finds4u

It doesn’t seem like the OP could have asked the PO to hold onto the item … OR could have refused delivery … AND be able to be refunded.  That’s because  they didn’t know what was inside the envelope (or who sent it) at the point of decision-making:  mail carrier at the door.  

I do appreciate the ethical issue involved in filing an INR dispute in this situation, however.

I can’t come up with a completely equitable solution myself.  I would not assume the seller made a conscious decision to cheat … nor do I feel the OP should eat the extra cost.

I’m admittingly of no help at all.  🙁   Hopefully, the seller will reimburse the OP voluntarily.

[justafemster]

No.  I don't agree with your assessment.

Somebody stuck a stamp on it, without a return address so the buyer would get stuck paying the postage.  Somebody did granny wrong.

Granny had no idea what was in the envie, as they were expecting several packages that day.  AND the NO return address.  So paying the postage was NOT acceptance of the altered terms of the sale.  

Here's the other thing.  How do we (or Granny) know that envie was from the seller?  Nothing on the envie and I'm assuming there was no packing slip to say where it came from.  For all we know the seller hasn't mailed it, there's no proof it's from the seller.  For all we know, one of granny's grandbirds could have sent the connector.  All there is, is an unmarked, untracked envie that looks like the part that was ordered. No idea where it came from or who it came from.    Hence, INR claim. 

Granny has already said that the seller will be contacted and asked for the postage. 

It's bad sellers like that that mess with all our sales.  

Oh and refusing a package also means the MBG is void.  So there's that.