Royal Mail providing false information to eBay / tracking services about fake delivery attempts.

[trelliott]

This is really two separate problems, but the same idea and same general concern.

This morning I received an email with the subject line

"Your Royal Mail parcel from (redacted) could not be delivered"

and the content

"An attempt was made to deliver your parcel LA217569560GB from (redacted). There didn't seem to be anyone in.

*Please check the card that was left to confirm the collection/redelivery process for your parcel."

I have been at the address all morning - there have been no delivery attempts. I have spoken to eBay about this false information, and have been told that they can't do anything, as Royal Mail is responsible. I would like eBay to be able to delete that information, as it is false and they should not propagate it. This is the second time this has happened with Royal Mail, 

The second, similar problem, is that I have had a fake "item delivered" incident via Canada Post. I had an investigation done through Canada Post, and they do not know what happened to the item.

At all times I have been 34 seconds away from my mailbox and have checked immediately following receipt of all emails.

I know there has been some action taken against Royal Mail in the UK (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/23/royal-mail-managers-postmen-fake-deliveries-bonuses/) concerning faked delivery attempts - this seems to have involved the postal workers (good on them for doing something). 

What concerns me is that this false information is propagated throughout many systems. When I contacted eBay about the undelivered item, I kept getting referred to the item listed as having been "delivered". They directed me to file a claim with the seller (who is, in my view, blameless - they sent something that was tracked, and I have no reason to doubt that this was the item I bought from them). The seller pointed out that the item was "delivered".

The problem, of course, is that all that information was false from the beginning, and each instance in which it appears (eBay, packageradar.com, Canada Post tracking, etc.) likely depends entirely on that original falsehood. In all cases, there were never deliveries or delivery attempts made, and in all cases there are multiple sources of information that claim there were.

This seems like a pretty extreme situation where there is no accountability and where there can be no expectation of trust. How are people navigating this? I can't even contact the sellers through eBay to let them know what is happening.

[kensgiftshop]

Not sure what you think Ebay could do about it, they get their information from the carriers.

Contact the carrier and see if the packages was addressed to you or someone else.

[trelliott]

Well, one thing eBay could do is mark that information as "disputed" - make a note that the veracity of that information is in question. The packages were all addressed to me. The carriers have both been contacted and an investigation has been done by one of them (Canada Post). The information on eBay remains. It's still false, and it's still being quoted in dealing with the non-received item.

[bennotbill]

This seems a common thing. I've had similar with RM and Evri in the UK.

It usually comes down to.........

Item delivered  - scanned in the van but run out of time to actually deliver. Usually turns up in a day or two.

Delivery attempt made - run out of time to actually try to deliver. Usually turns up in a day or two.

I expect much the same happens with some American and Canadian postal deliveries.

[airsheep]

If the fake tracking scam is propagating to other countries' mail systems, that is bad.

[lacemaker3]

@trelliott 

The Canada Post website seems to have good information available about that package.

It has signature required, and there are duty and taxes owing. They will need to be paid before your package can be delivered. This could have something to do with why they weren't able to deliver it.

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/track-reperage/en#/details/LA217569560GB

Canada Post says "We were unable to deliver the item to the recipient’s usual mail delivery location. We left a delivery notice card there indicating when and where to pick up the item. Once it’s available for pickup at the post office, this information will also be available when you track online."

Also 8:45 am: "The item will be made available at a post office for pickup.

"We'll tell you where and when to pick up your item when it's available."

1:56 pm: "The item is on its way to the post office, but is not yet ready for pickup. Keep checking Track until you see the item is available for pickup."

That was just posted today, so it will probably be updated once the carrier gets back to the post office with it.

Many addresses in Canada don't have mail delivery to the door. Sometimes there are community mailboxes and parcel lockers, sometimes all mail is delivered to a PO box in the post office. Because of the signature required, and the payment that needs to be collected, they would have to leave a notice, which appears to be what has happened.

I don't think Royal Mail in the UK has anything to do with it at this point.

[trelliott]

That's interesting! I was at my mailbox a couple of minutes ago and there is no card - no carrier has been there yet. This morning, the Canada Post web site said it had no information about that number.  It seems like this information is being generated despite the actions described not being taken. That's still concerning, though it looks like I will probably get the item eventually.

[lacemaker3]

The latest update that I see on Canada Post was at 1:56 pm Atlantic time, so just about half an hour ago.

The website says that it's too late to pay the customs and duty online, you will have to pay in person to the carrier or more likely at the post office. It doesn't seem as though it is reasonable to expect the carrier to be able to collect payment in this situation. Possibly they might have been able to deliver it if the payment had been made in advance. No guarantees, though.

The wording for those notices is all preprogrammed, so sometimes it doesn't fit the situation exactly.

[trelliott]

While It would have been nice to have some information where I was given the option of paying customs and duty online before it was too late, but that's another issue where Canada Post just does not provide tracking for many items, so those deadlines pass without a chance to do anything about them.

My concern is that those messages, both the ones from Royal Mail and the ones from Canada Post, are bull**bleep** (in the Harry Frankfurt sense of it not mattering whether they are true or not). To me, this is a serious problem because there is no reason to believe anything Canada Post or Royal Mail says. It may be true or it may not be.

[lacemaker3]

It looks to me as though Canada Post had information for that package from Mar 19, when it was posted in the UK. It was updated when it arrived in Montreal, and cleared customs the next day, Mar 20, and then was sent out to NS.

I have not had any issues with Canada Post tracking showing incorrect information in the past. I have found them to be quite reliable.

[trelliott]

They may have had the information, but it wasn't made available outside of their internal tracking. When I typed the same number in even as late as this morning, the web site displayed "We didn’t find an item associated with this number. Find out why.You can also edit this number."* This is despite Canada Post probably knowing that the item had customs / duties owing. They waited until it was too late for those to be paid to make information about them available. Again, it's a different issue from the fake "card been left" information they are providing now where it's clear there has been no carrier to the address.

*This is usually the case when I type any tracking number in on their site, though I imagine Canada Post has a somewhat better idea of where the packages are.  I find sites like packageradar.com provide more (or just some) information.

[lacemaker3]

I had no difficulty tracking that number on Canada Post website. I copied it from your post and pasted it, and got results immediately. I tried Royal Mail first, with no luck, as I didn't see immediately that you are in Canada. It did copy a blank space after the number, and I had to delete that space, as I recall. That frequently happens, with tracking numbers.

As you can see, the tracking is available now, and in my experience, it would have been available from the first update, which was Mar 19. If you were having difficulty, you may have typed the number wrong, or if you copied it then you may have gotten the blank space as well.

All I can say is that my experience with Canada Post tracking has been much better than yours. I have never had the issues you are describing, and I had no trouble getting the tracking for your tracking number.

[trelliott]

Apparently, when Canada Post sends out a message that an item was delivered, or that a delivery attempt has been made and a notice card has been left, they have until 8 p.m. that day to attempt delivery of the item or card. This doesn't make sense to me, as it's like a child saying "I left the car in the garage" (Parent goes to use car, it isn't there) to mean "I plan on leaving the car in the garage sometime today, but haven't gotten around to it yet". Doing that sort of thing erodes public trust, which isn't a good thing for a delivery service.

[kensgiftshop]

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@trelliott wrote:

Well, one thing eBay could do is mark that information as "disputed" - make a note that the veracity of that information is in question. The packages were all addressed to me. The carriers have both been contacted and an investigation has been done by one of them (Canada Post). The information on eBay remains. It's still false, and it's still being quoted in dealing with the non-received item.

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As far as Ebay is concerned, they don't know if it's false or not, they didn't deliver the packages.

All they know is what the carrier relays to them and that is the package was delivered.

[kensgiftshop]

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@bennotbill wrote:

This seems a common thing. I've had similar with RM and Evri in the UK.

It usually comes down to.........

Item delivered  - scanned in the van but run out of time to actually deliver. Usually turns up in a day or two.

Delivery attempt made - run out of time to actually try to deliver. Usually turns up in a day or two.

I expect much the same happens with some American and Canadian postal deliveries.

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I've watched my old mail carrier set there and scan 10 or 15 packages while we were talking.

It would be easy to miss a small package that's already been scanned.