I suspect an item I won on ebay was shilled at the last minute to jack up the price

[perfumenmore]

I was watching an auction and decided to bid on it.  It was one price for almost 7 days with only two bidders bidding with 50 cent increments. Only two bids were placed at that time by two different users.  I used a proxy service to do the bidding for me because I work two jobs which places the bid within the last seconds of the auction.  Right before the auction closed someone placed a large bid that was more than half the amount of the second bid.  It seems so obvious it was shilling that it is ridiculous.  No one is going to bid more than half the amount of the item.  Additionally, the price right now with shipping is what I could have paid for the item new.  I no longer want this item because I suspect foul play here.  I don't want to get the seller in trouble with ebay but I don't want to be ripped off either.  What should I do?

[perfumenmore]

I know how bidding works. The person who put in the huge bid first put on one bid and then bid against themselves immediately after it for more than half the amount. Why would they bid against them self?

Proxy services, eBay or others, do not bid like that. I've used eBay's proxy.  It puts the bids on in increments from the beginning of the auction. Other proxy services do it in the last few seconds based on the last amount.  It doesn't bid more than half the amount of the last bid. No service does that. 

[airsheep]

I might, if I wanted the item and thought it was undervalued at that last moment. I've been in the same position as the second runner up in your auction, where the other person was willing to pay more for the item than me, and had a bigger proxy bid.

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@perfumenmore wrote:

I know how bidding works. The person who put in the huge bid first put on one bid and then bid against themselves immediately after it for more than half the amount. Why would they bid against them self?

Proxy services, eBay or others, do not bid like that. I've used eBay's proxy.  It puts the bids on in increments from the beginning of the auction. Other proxy services do it in the last few seconds based on the last amount.  It doesn't bid more than half the amount of the last bid. No service does that. 

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@perfumenmore wrote:

I know how bidding works. The person who put in the huge bid first put on one bid and then bid against themselves immediately after it for more than half the amount. Why would they bid against them self?

Proxy services, eBay or others, do not bid like that. I've used eBay's proxy.  It puts the bids on in increments from the beginning of the auction. Other proxy services do it in the last few seconds based on the last amount.  It doesn't bid more than half the amount of the last bid. No service does that. 

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A bidder can't bid against themselves.  The system doesn't allow it.  Along with that since you're still the winner they would be bidding against you not themsleves.  

Say you bid 65 while the current bid is 20 that happens to be the bid showing and the bidders actual bid. It's going have your bid show 20.50.  Now someone comes alone and bids 60.  The bid is going to jump to 60.50 with you still winning.  

Would you please share the item number or a screenshot of the bidding 

[myangelandmyprincess]

 I know you think you understand how bidding works   However what you're describing in no way indicates any kind of shilling.   So that leads to the conclusion you don't understand something about bidding (that you don't know what shill bidding is) so if you don't understand shill bidding it's reasonable to conclude you're confused about bidding in other ways 

[buyselljack2016]

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@perfumenmore wrote:

I know how bidding works. The person who put in the huge bid first put on one bid and then bid against themselves immediately after it for more than half the amount. Why would they bid against them self?

Proxy services, eBay or others, do not bid like that. I've used eBay's proxy.  It puts the bids on in increments from the beginning of the auction. Other proxy services do it in the last few seconds based on the last amount.  It doesn't bid more than half the amount of the last bid. No service does that. 

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One last time. You do not understand how bidding works.

I could bid early. Then increase my bid because maybe I thought I might be out bid.(does not change unless someone else bids) (can not bid against myself)

Then I think to myself, I could still be out bid. I will bid even more . (still does not change because I CAN NOT bid against myself)

It goes up only if your Proxy bid had been placed, and was higher than mine.

Then I wait until almost the end, and punch in all that I am willing to pay. Well, it jumped my bid way up from the current showing bid to one increment below anamandy's (hidden max) bid because anamandy's (hidden max) proxy bid was higher than what I wanted to pay.

Sorry you had to pay more than expected, but you bid what you bid, and that is how it works.

[eurobmw-5]

This is buyers remorse - or just ignorance!  Someone bent out of shape because they thought they would get the item way less but someone else wanted it too. Move on!

[samirr-34]

Ok say I bid $200 and another bidder bids $500, and a 3rd bids $600, the bid will jump from $200 to $600.

But that's besides the point. If you didn't want to pay the amount that you bid why did you build that amount? Obviously you either wanted it and were willing to pay that much, or you tried a huge bid in the hopes you'd win but it wouldn't go that high.

In either case, you need to be an adult and pay for what you won. Stop trying to wiggle out of it by accusing the seller of doing something nefarious.

[mister*phil]

I know how bidding works.

Your comments suggest otherwise.

Bidders cannot bid against themselves. If a bidder rebids when he is in the lead, his high bid is not increased. His max bid is increased, but the max is not used unless someone else comes along to bid against his high bid.

Please provide the auction number so others can look at it and see what happened. I will guarantee you that nobody shilled your auction. 

You've been given examples of how the bidding works. If you don't want to understand them, then that's not anybody else's problem.

[monroe67]

We haven't seen a post like this in a while.   

Face Facts, anamandy.  Somebody else wanted the same Thing you did, and was willing to spend more money on it, and was willing or able to sit at their computer to make sure they won the auction.

A few  years ago, somebody was selling, I think, 11 or 12 skeins of cotton embroidery floss.   There were numerous bids.  I placed a bid which was immediately outbid.  I placed a maximum bid.  The other bids kept on coming and eventually surpassed my maximum bid.  So I placed another maximum bid.  And I won, as I said, a dozen or so skeins of cotton thread.  For something around $115.00.  

Sounds ridiculous, right?  Who would spend that much money for cotton thread?  But this wasn't the brand you can buy at Walmart and Hobby Lobby.  This was a brand and a set of colors created by a cross-stitch designer for her own designs.  She had since passed away and the manufacture of this brand was discontinued.   They are increasingly rare.   And I Wanted Them.  

But it doesn't matter whether it was cotton thread or a pair of shoes or an accessory for your car.   YOU alone get to decide how much you can afford to and are willing to spend.  YOU must be willing to spend whatever amount you enter as your maximum bid.   And YOU must accept that you can't always get what you want.  

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@monroe67 wrote:

We haven't seen a post like this in a while.   

Face Facts, anamandy.  Somebody else wanted the same Thing you did, and was willing to spend more money on it, and was willing or able to sit at their computer to make sure they won the auction.

A few  years ago, somebody was selling, I think, 11 or 12 skeins of cotton embroidery floss.   There were numerous bids.  I placed a bid which was immediately outbid.  I placed a maximum bid.  The other bids kept on coming and eventually surpassed my maximum bid.  So I placed another maximum bid.  And I won, as I said, a dozen or so skeins of cotton thread.  For something around $115.00.  

Sounds ridiculous, right?  Who would spend that much money for cotton thread?  But this wasn't the brand you can buy at Walmart and Hobby Lobby.  This was a brand and a set of colors created by a cross-stitch designer for her own designs.  She had since passed away and the manufacture of this brand was discontinued.   They are increasingly rare.   And I Wanted Them.  

But it doesn't matter whether it was cotton thread or a pair of shoes or an accessory for your car.   YOU alone get to decide how much you can afford to and are willing to spend.  YOU must be willing to spend whatever amount you enter as your maximum bid.   And YOU must accept that you can't always get what you want.  

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Actually the ops complaint is they did win but they don't want to pay because they think it was a shill bid. What they describe sounds nothing like shilling but a snipe bid  that wasn't high enough to win 

[7606dennis]

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

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@monroe67 wrote:

We haven't seen a post like this in a while.   

Face Facts, anamandy.  Somebody else wanted the same Thing you did, and was willing to spend more money on it, and was willing or able to sit at their computer to make sure they won the auction.

A few  years ago, somebody was selling, I think, 11 or 12 skeins of cotton embroidery floss.   There were numerous bids.  I placed a bid which was immediately outbid.  I placed a maximum bid.  The other bids kept on coming and eventually surpassed my maximum bid.  So I placed another maximum bid.  And I won, as I said, a dozen or so skeins of cotton thread.  For something around $115.00.  

Sounds ridiculous, right?  Who would spend that much money for cotton thread?  But this wasn't the brand you can buy at Walmart and Hobby Lobby.  This was a brand and a set of colors created by a cross-stitch designer for her own designs.  She had since passed away and the manufacture of this brand was discontinued.   They are increasingly rare.   And I Wanted Them.  

But it doesn't matter whether it was cotton thread or a pair of shoes or an accessory for your car.   YOU alone get to decide how much you can afford to and are willing to spend.  YOU must be willing to spend whatever amount you enter as your maximum bid.   And YOU must accept that you can't always get what you want.  

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Actually the ops complaint is they did win but they don't want to pay because they think it was a shill bid. What they describe sounds nothing like shilling but a snipe bid  that wasn't high enough to win 

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I get a similar take on the situation.  Of course, although the seller could sue if the OP failed to pay it is doubtful that would happen.  It is more likely that the seller would file a UID and if the OP didn't pay up, close it 96 hours later giving the OP a strike.

[mister*phil]

I placed a maximum bid.  The other bids kept on coming and eventually surpassed my maximum bid.  So I placed another maximum bid.

I detect a bit of confusion around the word "maximum" here. If you were willing to bid higher than your first "maximum" bid, then your first bid wasn't your maximum.

The best way to bid on ebay is to figure out what your bid would be if you were only allowed to bid one time, then enter that at some point during the auction. That form of bidding is absolutely immune to being sniped. Either you wanted to pay more than the sniper, in which case you win the auction no matter when the sniper bids, or the sniper wanted to pay more than you, in which case the sniper wins while you made sure the sniper paid for the privilege. 

The worst way to bid is to enter one bid after another, inching your bid up until you're just ahead of the other guy. That works in live auctions, but ebay is not a live auction and the clock will kill you.

[7606dennis]

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@mister*phil wrote:

I placed a maximum bid.  The other bids kept on coming and eventually surpassed my maximum bid.  So I placed another maximum bid.

I detect a bit of confusion around the word "maximum" here. If you were willing to bid higher than your first "maximum" bid, then your first bid wasn't your maximum.

The best way to bid on ebay is to figure out what your bid would be if you were only allowed to bid one time, then enter that at some point during the auction. That form of bidding is absolutely immune to being sniped. Either you wanted to pay more than the sniper, in which case you win the auction no matter when the sniper bids, or the sniper wanted to pay more than you, in which case the sniper wins while you made sure the sniper paid for the privilege. 

The worst way to bid is to enter one bid after another, inching your bid up until you're just ahead of the other guy. That works in live auctions, but ebay is not a live auction and the clock will kill you.

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You might have hit the nail on the head.  The auctions run on eBay are not outcry auctions that many people associate with the word auction.  All eBay auctions have a finite bidding period thus the so called, "SNIPING" bidding strategy is effective.  It would not be so in a live outcry auction.

One thing that would make a great difference in bidding if eBay's auctions were outcry auctions is that once a bid was placed, the price would go up to that amount.  There would be no hidden maximum bid to be concerned with.  In the OP's case, there would have been no last minute bid to raise the price since the amount of their bid would have been the price that any other bidder would have had to beat.

By the way, the OP did not place their maximum bid if they later placed another, higher, bid.

[promytius1]

RE: last-minute bids.

I bid early to get the item onto my watch and bid list. Then i search on that item and find the lowest full price, divide that in half, and that's my final bid ceiling. If it is something like a radio or a chair, something with intrinsic value and a fair market price, and it is something I'm not just looking at , but actually need to have, if there's little activity, I'll wait and not bid again until the end, then put in what I am willing to pay and that's it; if it goes up I leave it, and start over, or search for a buy now price at that level.

What bugs me is when I'm outbid at the last second and never notified; I watch om my PC and my Smartphone and still twice now I've been listed as high bidder until it closes an I lose. That is when it get s frustrating; I'd like to see a real-time -all-informed immediately setup where I at least get a counter-offer chance, like in real auctions. "Are there any more bids?"

[mister*phil]

If you put in what you were willing to pay, then why are you upset about being outbid? If you were willing to bid higher, why didn't you bid higher when you put in your bid?

Ebay is not a live auction, so why should they put in stuff from a live auction? Many years ago, I was on a live auction site that operated like you suggest, bidding on something (a laptop, as I recall). The auction went 4 hours beyond it's nominal closing time, because people couldn't stop bidding. Some folks had to give up because the auction ran past midnight their time and they needed to get to work the next day. How is that better?