I need yalls opinion on a purchase-gone-wrong

[vonlafosse]

Hello everyone, I need some advice from my fellow ebayers... 

This is a slightly oddball incident and one I'm not quite sure how to pursue.

I purchased an antique silver plate tureen a few days ago. The listing was clear in its description of the pieces included (the bowl, the lid, and the fitting ring for the lid), and clear in its description that, and I quote, "THERE ARE NO DENTS/REPAIRS". 

The seller in question has 100% positive feedback, so I HOPE this is just a fluke, but maybe not.... 

Anyways, upon arival I open the box to find that the seller has forgotten to pack the fitting-ring for the lid (a necessary, and important piece of the item), AND there are most DEFINITELY "Dents/repairs". 

The bottom of the bowl piece has several DEEP dents (like someone took an ice-pick and went to town with a hammer), and the footing of the bowl is bent inwards and has obviously been PRIED on with some kind of tool (leaving further marks) in an attempt to repair the bent footing. 

I IMMEDIATELY contacted the seller, albeit a little miffed, but direct. 

Now here's where I am a little confused. 

I immediately flagged the transaction with eBay using the resolution center and have been in communication with the seller through there. 

The seller replied back to my claim with, what I find to be a "sub-par" response:

He told me he would either send me the ring "at no additional charge" (like, **bleep**.... why WOULD there be? He's not providing some excellent service by the statement, he's simply sending me the item I paid him for)... 

-OR- 

I could send the tureen back for a "full refund". 

-hence the operative there being "OR". 

Oooh this really burns me up!

I'll admit, for the type of item it is, I paid "top-dollar". I feel like his solution is incredibly one-sided because it doesnt take into account the fact that the item was blatantly mis-represented/described. 

On a side note I feel anytime a seller pins you with "return it and I'll give a refund", it really means that they KNEW the item was damaged but know that unique/antique items are difficult to come by leaving the buyer with a "mock-choice" between essentially a rock and a hard place. 

It's almost like saying "accept MY terms or I'll deprive you of the item you originally sought out to purchase". 

to be honest, and I'm not going to lie here, I DO feel like a partial refund is absolutely in order. 

But the seller seems to think otherwise... 

So what would yall suggest? 

I DO want the item, even with the dents because, while not ideal, the piece is antique and I may not come across the exact one again. However there is a big difference (in PRICE) between " NO DENT/REPAIRS" and the item I received. 

How would yall suggest I approach this situation?

I have already said "yes send me the ring as soon as possible" but that still doesn't touch on the damage to the item. 

Help!

[emerald_door]

Did you open a case for Not As Described?  The seller does not have to offer a partial refund.  If you want to keep it after he sends the missing part, then that would be the end of it.  The other option is to return it for a full refund. 

I'm sorry you ran into such a careless or dishonest seller. 

[vonlafosse]

I opened a claim in the resolution center to "return an item"... should I have opened a dispute somewhere else?

But I don't understand, how could that be the end of it? That only takes care of the piece he forgot to send, not the damage that was blatantly concealed in the listing... I mean, he literally says "no dents/repairs"... yet there are SIGNIFICANT dents and awful "repair" marks (where a tool has obviously been used to attempt to pry the dent back out). 

You're right, the seller DOESN'T have to offer a refund, but I also don't have to 1.make this easy on him, and 2. Leave positive or even neutral feedback.... 

He doesn't HAVE to, but he would be smart to. However I just don't understand how he could get away with what he's done?

[juststuffisell]

It seems to me you have already made up your mind to keep the bit. Especially given you have requested the seller send you the missing ring.

The most appropriate action would have been to file a SNAD and return it to the seller given you paid top dollar.

The seller didn't give me the impression they were trying to leverage. They offered you two reasonable options that they were prepared to give; send the missing bit or return the item.

You should have negotiated with the seller before you asked them to send the missing ring. i.e. explain the impact of the damage to the bits value and document with photographs and the amount you feel is fair to pay for the a piece in that condition. You could have provided documentation to support the suggested sales price.

After the fact is almost like holding the seller hostage - i.e. give me some money back or I will peg you with a neg.... the neg would have been justified if you felt the seller was intentionally misleading.

IMHO, given you asked for the seller to ship the missing bit, it is kind of hard to then come back and say and BTW, I want "X" amount refunded for the undisclosed damage. You could do it, but the seller is probably not going to be receptive at that point. If you ask for a partial refund and the seller balks and you keep the item and peg with a neg, the seller will probably be able to get that removed just due to how all of it played out.

Hate when things like that happen as really leaves no good choices.

Cheers

[lintbrush*]

The Money Back Guarantee entitles you to receive the item as described or to be made whole. 

There is no requirement to do a partial refund.   Some sellers might offer one, but it is not a requirement.

He has offered to make you whole by accepting the return.  You may be putting emphasis on his words that don't exist.  (It's easy to do)

Did you attach pictures of the damage you found?  It's not required, but they can help (especially if you want to keep the item and obtain a partial refund)

Just so you know, he's not getting away with anything.  SNAD returns count on his seller metrics and could impact his selling fee rates (they go up with too many).  And if you return it, he is required to refund the entire purchase price including return postage.  That can be costly.

While I know you are disappointed in the transaction as it sounds like a piece you really wanted, he's doing what he should do for a Not As Described return.

[mudshark61369]

@vonlafosse,

The item you received was not as described in terms of damage and completeness.  You are entitled to get the missing part sent to you at the seller's cost.  You are also able to request either a partial refund, but the seller does not have to accept that as a solution.  They can stand on you returning the item for a full refund, but that will be at the seller's cost. If you take the time to read the Money Back Guarantee (MBG) carefully, you would see that once you receive a return shipping label from the seller, and tracking shows you shipped the item within 5 working days, you will be refunded.   What makes this whole thing odd is the ring not being sent by the seller, and you are already seeking a partial refund.

While I understand that you would like to keep the item, You have to consider the possibility that the ring may be in the same or worse shape than what you have already received. If it is, negotiating now for a partial refund doesn't work because you might need to ask for a higher amount.  Push for the ring being sent, will disrupt the whole process since you have already opened a dispute, or a request. You cannot close a dispute and open another for the same item.  PayPal and if you used one your credit card provider will protect you, but you would end up paying the return shipping cost using one of those two options.  

 "The seller in question has 100% positive feedback, so I HOPE this is just a fluke, but maybe not...".

Did you look at the seller's feedback profile page, and check how many feedback they have AS A Seller?  To me the seller's actions say they are either new to selling or are very inexperienced.  A new seller or one who hasn't sold in over a year could have a 100% positive rating, but only as a buyer. An experienced seller would know how they are affected by the MBG, and what their options are if it is used.

Yes, there is a possibility you may never find that exact piece on ebay again.  However, there's a good chance that an equally nice vintage or antique piece will be listed at some point.

[robot-hands]

Yeah, that's basically it. Get the piece you need or return it.

I don't know the seller or the provenance of the piece or how they bought it or re-rearched it but I don't see anything malicious or out of the ordinary here. More than likely simple over-sight.

Play it by the numbers and you both are protected here.

[muttlymob]

This is a slightly oddball incident and one I'm not quite sure how to pursue.

IMO it really isn't an oddball situation.  You received something that was not as described.  eBay's Money Back Guarantee clearly details what to do when you receive something not as described.  It would be to your benefit to read the MBG before buying anything else.

He told me he would either send me the ring "at no additional charge" (like, **bleep**.... why WOULD there be? He's not providing some excellent service by the statement, he's simply sending me the item I paid him for)... 

-OR- 

I could send the tureen back for a "full refund". 

-hence the operative there being "OR". 

Oooh this really burns me up!

I'll admit, for the type of item it is, I paid "top-dollar". I feel like his solution is incredibly one-sided because it doesnt take into account the fact that the item was blatantly mis-represented/described. 

That doesn't look one-sided to me.  You file the Not as Described claim.  You get your money back, the seller pays return shipping.  You are out nothing financially, just the time to file the claim, repack the set, and send it back.  The seller gets a SNAD (significantly not as described) claim on his record and is out the shipping money both ways.

On a side note I feel anytime a seller pins you with "return it and I'll give a refund", it really means that they KNEW the item was damaged but know that unique/antique items are difficult to come by leaving the buyer with a "mock-choice" between essentially a rock and a hard place.

Or maybe it's a seller who believes good customer service means taking returns without argument.  If the damage were not so blatant, this might be the case.

It's almost like saying "accept MY terms or I'll deprive you of the item you originally sought out to purchase". 

If the set is as damaged as you say, then you CANNOT get the item you originally sought to purchase, because it doesn't exist.  You thought you were buying an undamaged tureen, the seller didn't have an undamaged tureen.  He can't give you an undamaged tureen.  You were deprived of the item you wanted before you even purchased because the seller never had an undamaged tureen.

How would yall suggest I approach this situation?

Return for refund.

If not, then approach the seller calmly.  Don't threaten with feedback in any way. 

[ed8108]

What you have described, based upon my personal experience is not unusual, it's SOP with some sellers on eBay.

Question: Should dishonesty be profitable & encouraged?

Keep the item and accept that you have overpaid, since you paid more than you would have, had you known the actual true item condition, before you purchased.

Your keeping the item will of course  likely encourage your seller to practice future dishonesty.

OR

Return the item as a SNAD, you may be inconvenienced, but your seller will suffer a monetary loss for shipping costs, which may deter future dishonesty by this seller.

[castlemagicmemories]

I'm sorry you are in this situation and I completely understand that dillemma this poses for you.  The either/or scenario still doesn't address the egregious difference in condition as specified and it puts you in the situation where you have to decide if you want to give up the piece you bought just because the listing was deceptive and inaccurate.  And you know if you keep it, you paid a price that was not reflective of what you actually received.

Your call~you can decide to settle, or just send it back and you don't have to pay the return shipping.  

[missjen831]

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@mudshark61369 wrote:

@vonlafosse,

The item you received was not as described in terms of damage and completeness.  You are entitled to get the missing part sent to you at the seller's cost.  You are also able to request either a partial refund, but the seller does not have to accept that as a solution.  They can stand on you returning the item for a full refund, but that will be at the seller's cost. If you take the time to read the Money Back Guarantee (MBG) carefully, you would see that once you receive a return shipping label from the seller, and tracking shows you shipped the item within 5 working days, you will be refunded.   What makes this whole thing odd is the ring not being sent by the seller, and you are already seeking a partial refund.

PayPal and if you used one your credit card provider will protect you, but you would end up paying the return shipping cost using one of those two options.  

---

@mudshark61369 Refunds are not issued once the buyer has shipped the item back within 5 days. They are issued  within 2 days after the item is delivered to the seller. And PayPal pays for return shipping now, up to 10 returns, up to $30 per return label. 

[7606dennis]

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@vonlafosse wrote:

I opened a claim in the resolution center to "return an item"... should I have opened a dispute somewhere else?

But I don't understand, how could that be the end of it? That only takes care of the piece he forgot to send, not the damage that was blatantly concealed in the listing... I mean, he literally says "no dents/repairs"... yet there are SIGNIFICANT dents and awful "repair" marks (where a tool has obviously been used to attempt to pry the dent back out). 

You're right, the seller DOESN'T have to offer a refund, but I also don't have to 1.make this easy on him, and 2. Leave positive or even neutral feedback.... 

He doesn't HAVE to, but he would be smart to. However I just don't understand how he could get away with what he's done?

---

If you opened a return request using "not as described as the reason" you have already opened a SNAD dispute.